I noticed that some HH cages have the platforms removed Pete has never even tried to explore another level they do at least provide cover for him but he is getting quite brave now so maybe they are surplus to requirement. Pete likes to literally explore all of his domain but does not like it if anything is blocking his chosen route which makes space to put enrichment items in rather difficult especially now that I've ordered a sandbox he loves his tubes best and holey log 2nd best prefers to drink out of his dish and although I do scatter some food he still likes to regularly check his food bowl. His substrate is deep 2 thirds at one end and on 2 sides going round the back of his house he tunnels quite successfully I leave the food and toilet area quite low. Based on that information can items safely be placed on top of the substrate i:e sandbox and tubes it's almost to the top of the base do I leave the plastic shelves in do dwarfies ever bother going up I'd like to make it more interesting for him as in a bridge and steps but can't compromise his space. Ideally I would have preferred a bigger cage but had to give away a bookcase to fit the 80 x50.
Hamster Heaven dilemma
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It's difficult to quite imagine it - it might help if you posted a photo of the cage perhaps? But from what you're saying - is it that you are using one of the shelves it came with? I've had the solid shelf in an identical cage (it was basically a hamster heaven with smaller bar spacing) and it is limiting. There's not much height under it to put anything and with the ladder it blocks virtually one side of the cage. What I did in the end was just build up from an empty cage, and had a large flat topped house at one end, which doubled up as a platform and a couple of smaller shelves over it in the corners instead. And that was for a Syrian at the time. I ended up upgrading because with a large house and a Syrian wheel in that cage there's not much floorspace left, but with a dwarf wheel and house it's a bit different. In my view it's a choice between that shelf, and a decent house/nesting box. Which can just be a shoebox or tissue box really. But they do still need some overhead cover so if not using the shelf then a large-ish house and/or a smaller shelf in one corner would be an idea. And on top of that it's working out things without spending a lot of money.
Where does Pete spend most of his time at the moment in the cage?
Where does Pete spend most of his time at the moment in the cage?
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It would help to see Pete’s layout as it is hard to imagine what might help.
I’ve never used any shelves that come with cages, I use a flat top house like Maz which doubles as a shelf then make small shelves on legs for the sand bath & wheel, that leaves a lot more space for other items & enrichment.
Some dwarfs do enjoy exploring different levels but they do need to be easy to access & not take up too much space in the cage. You can also get little ledges which screw onto the bars, kept low down for a Russian these can be handy for putting thngs on too or just for a bit more space to explore.
I’ve never used any shelves that come with cages, I use a flat top house like Maz which doubles as a shelf then make small shelves on legs for the sand bath & wheel, that leaves a lot more space for other items & enrichment.
Some dwarfs do enjoy exploring different levels but they do need to be easy to access & not take up too much space in the cage. You can also get little ledges which screw onto the bars, kept low down for a Russian these can be handy for putting thngs on too or just for a bit more space to explore.
Sorry I should have put this photo on with last night's text here you can see the shelves in question Petes bed is under the pink shelf it's one I took from above he uses it all the time and likes to burrow behind it he tends to use all areas ambling around making inspections of his property he's a very curious little man. The substrate at the other end under the green shelf is deepest almost reaching to the bottom of the shelf I thought this may encourage him to explore up there he occasionally does burrow in that area but seems to prefer tubes and mostly burrows in and around his bed where the substrate isn't as deep which I find strange. The tube on top of the green shelf has some food and bedding in it from when he had it in his playpen last night so I left it thinking he may be tempted to go up to it this morning but he's just not interested in the shelves. I'm just thinking in advance for best arrangements when his sandbox becomes available. Leaning towards a smaller corner shelf as suggested.
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If he’s nesting under the pink shelf then I would leave that one there, could you make the substrate deeper there without disturbing his nest or burrows too much? That might encourage him to go up on that shelf more, also maybe make access easier with a bendy bridge or something easy to climb.
The pink shelf is quite a useful space as it’s fairly large & you could use that for the sand bath.
Sand baths are fairly heavy so it’s best not to put them directly on the substrate.
I have no idea what the purpose of that green shelf was ever meant to be tbh!
You could remove that & either put a flat topped house or a free standing shelf that had a useful amount of space there, he could still use the space underneath that way but it would also make much better use of the space there.
Accessing shelves with plastic ladders or ramps isn’t easy for Russian hams with their furry feet so you may find he will explore & use shelves or levels much more with easier access.
The pink shelf is quite a useful space as it’s fairly large & you could use that for the sand bath.
Sand baths are fairly heavy so it’s best not to put them directly on the substrate.
I have no idea what the purpose of that green shelf was ever meant to be tbh!
You could remove that & either put a flat topped house or a free standing shelf that had a useful amount of space there, he could still use the space underneath that way but it would also make much better use of the space there.
Accessing shelves with plastic ladders or ramps isn’t easy for Russian hams with their furry feet so you may find he will explore & use shelves or levels much more with easier access.
Thank you for your helpful response unfortunately the pink shelf isn't quite flat it's sort of humped up in the middle but it would be a good place for the sandbox if I can stabilise it maybe pack it underneath with bedding. I will higher the bedding underneath there as well. Which kind of bridge should I get I've read about feet getting caught in some but agree it does need easier access. I think the green shelf is supposed to give them run around routes as its channelled that will be replaced as you suggested may have to make do with boxes for short term till i can buy the better wooden items still reeling from initial set up and essentials cost. Pete is really doing well now becoming more inquisitive so I want to make the improvements so he can get used to and enjoy them.
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I’d forgotten about the odd shape of the pink shelf, hopefully you can find a way around that or someone who’s used the shelf might have an idea.
There are some bendy bridges made with coloured wood that are safe, like this one I got mine from ebay but it was such a long time ago I can’t remember the seller now but Maz might know. The ones that are made from bark covered twigs can be dangerous, some are ok but probably better to avoid those.
Cardboard boxes are fine for now, as long as they’re strong enough, you can do an awful lot with cardboard.
Good to hear that Pete is doing so well now.
There are some bendy bridges made with coloured wood that are safe, like this one I got mine from ebay but it was such a long time ago I can’t remember the seller now but Maz might know. The ones that are made from bark covered twigs can be dangerous, some are ok but probably better to avoid those.
Cardboard boxes are fine for now, as long as they’re strong enough, you can do an awful lot with cardboard.
Good to hear that Pete is doing so well now.
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Found the ebay seller I was thinking of, they make good bridges & shelves, not that cheap but very good quality.
Ranch house cages
Ranch house cages
Oh my goodness this site is amazing I may need a bank loan
the green shelf is definitely going.
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Ok that's helpful to see 
Is that Pete in the corner of the pink shelf ?! I agree it would be good to keep the pink shelf, but I would raise it higher, but a lot more substrate in and remove the green shelf and put the sand box there. You would then be able to have the wheel somewhere else as well possibly. It can take quite a bit of substrate, but if you get one of the bulk sized bags it will last a long time.
The easiest way to do it is if he is out in the playpen - then take out the existing substrate, add a lot more and put the existing substrate back on top so it smells familiar and doesn't stress him out. You could still use some of the tubes as floor toys maybe although I'd probably just use the middle section and not the curved ends so he sees it as more of a tunnel and less of a place to nest in. It would then be nice to have an extra smaller shelf at the sand bath end where the green shelf used to be, but I realise that is more money again - so another option could be to also raise the green shelf so the sand box fits under it easily. And if you have both shelves on the same level you could then use the plastic tube to link between them at the back perhaps so there is then no need for the ladder to the green shelf - the access to it would be from the pink shelf. With a lot more substrate, that wouldn't be too high to jump from.
It needs some working out and thinking about before making the changes - so you can make the changes all in one go and not have to adjust again - then it won't stress him if the changes are only made once. The green shelf does provide some purpose of giving some shelter underneath, even if higher.
So I think my plan would be (assuming you're not wanting to spend more money right now):
1) Pete in Playpen
2) Take substrate out
3) Add more substrate to fill the base
4) Add old substrate on top
5) Then raise both shelves - either to the same level or the green shelf a bit higher than the pink one - so the ladder from the pink one still reaches the substrate level.
6) Attach the single length of tubing to the back bars as access between the two shelves.
7) Sand bath under green shelf. Wheel wherever you want it. And maybe a few cardboard toilet roll tubes on the remaining floor area
Is that Pete in the corner of the pink shelf ?! I agree it would be good to keep the pink shelf, but I would raise it higher, but a lot more substrate in and remove the green shelf and put the sand box there. You would then be able to have the wheel somewhere else as well possibly. It can take quite a bit of substrate, but if you get one of the bulk sized bags it will last a long time.The easiest way to do it is if he is out in the playpen - then take out the existing substrate, add a lot more and put the existing substrate back on top so it smells familiar and doesn't stress him out. You could still use some of the tubes as floor toys maybe although I'd probably just use the middle section and not the curved ends so he sees it as more of a tunnel and less of a place to nest in. It would then be nice to have an extra smaller shelf at the sand bath end where the green shelf used to be, but I realise that is more money again - so another option could be to also raise the green shelf so the sand box fits under it easily. And if you have both shelves on the same level you could then use the plastic tube to link between them at the back perhaps so there is then no need for the ladder to the green shelf - the access to it would be from the pink shelf. With a lot more substrate, that wouldn't be too high to jump from.
It needs some working out and thinking about before making the changes - so you can make the changes all in one go and not have to adjust again - then it won't stress him if the changes are only made once. The green shelf does provide some purpose of giving some shelter underneath, even if higher.
So I think my plan would be (assuming you're not wanting to spend more money right now):
1) Pete in Playpen
2) Take substrate out
3) Add more substrate to fill the base
4) Add old substrate on top
5) Then raise both shelves - either to the same level or the green shelf a bit higher than the pink one - so the ladder from the pink one still reaches the substrate level.
6) Attach the single length of tubing to the back bars as access between the two shelves.
7) Sand bath under green shelf. Wheel wherever you want it. And maybe a few cardboard toilet roll tubes on the remaining floor area
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Sorry posted at the same time I posted above that you could still use the green shelf to save money for now and maybe think about replacing it later. It would be better to spend money on a big bag of Kaytee clean and cosy right now - the largest one. You'll probably use about two thirds of it but still have plenty spare for spot cleaning.
I posted above that you could still use the green shelf to save money for now and maybe think about replacing it later. It would be better to spend money on a big bag of Kaytee clean and cosy right now - the largest one. You'll probably use about two thirds of it but still have plenty spare for spot cleaning.
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This is where I get shelves from too. I have this pack
Coloured bendy bridge shelf pack
I have one of these little shelves and the the bendy bridge attached to the bars in Raffy's cage - I'll add the photo so you can see how it can work at one end of the cage - that would definitely be better than the green shelf, if funds permit - but the main thing is a lot more substrate. With those - I don't use the hooks they come with because feet could get caught in the gap between shelf and bendy bridge. There is no need to use the hooks as they come with screws and washers to attach to the bars and you just put them where you want. You just need a posidrive screwdriver!
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Totally understood. In which case I would just keep the green shelf for now as mentioned above, with both shelves higher up and invest in more substrate. Once Pete is well settled in, in the future, and if funds permit you could look at replacing the green shelf with something like the above but at the moment it will be fine with just some adjustment and will also then be minimal changes for him while he's still settling in fully. Any other new floor items could be cardboard
Which is free or cheap! Not sure if you're creatively minded but there are some very good ideas for cardboard toys and boredom breakers on this thread. There are lot of things you can make 
Cardboard creations
This is a thread to show how many things you can make for your hamster or enclosure, out of cardboard :-) Cardboard is your friend.
www.thehamsterforum.com
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Thank you all good advice appreciated I will be giving it a lot of thought and enjoy doodling layouts. Had to laugh what you thought to be Pete is a pine cone Pete was fast asleep in his hide underneath. I will invest in a large bag of substrate although he does seem to be making good tunnels and apart from the entrance and exsit holes no clues to where he has got to, do all hamsters need it deeper than the 4 to 5 inch Pete has at the moment this isn't a criticism I just don't quite understand why he might need it deeper there must be something I'm missing
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Ha ha - sorry my eyesight isn't the greatest. There is information about substrate on this article The current welfare guidelines are at least 8" of substrate! That is from the Blue Cross. The PDSA say at least 10" of substrate. The forum guidance is a minimum of 6" of substrate but ideally 8" or more. 6" is basically filling the base of the cage - but the more you can give the better.
The advantage to this is you very rarely need to do a substrate change, and just "spot clean" mostly and easily go three months or more without needing to change the substrate - and even then you can keep at least half of it that is clean and replace that when you add new and mix it in. This keeps it familiar smelling for the hamster and really helps avoid stress. Cleaning them out can be very stressful if all their scent is removed in one go. It also means that you rarely need to buy substrate, once you have the cage full. So it actually works out cheaper in the long run. The historic way of keeping minimal substrate and regular clean outs is not good for them. The bedding depth discussion is further down this article.
www.thehamsterforum.com
The current welfare guidelines are at least 8" of substrate! That is from the Blue Cross. The PDSA say at least 10" of substrate. The forum guidance is a minimum of 6" of substrate but ideally 8" or more. 6" is basically filling the base of the cage - but the more you can give the better.The advantage to this is you very rarely need to do a substrate change, and just "spot clean" mostly and easily go three months or more without needing to change the substrate - and even then you can keep at least half of it that is clean and replace that when you add new and mix it in. This keeps it familiar smelling for the hamster and really helps avoid stress. Cleaning them out can be very stressful if all their scent is removed in one go. It also means that you rarely need to buy substrate, once you have the cage full. So it actually works out cheaper in the long run. The historic way of keeping minimal substrate and regular clean outs is not good for them. The bedding depth discussion is further down this article.
Hamster Bedding and Substrate
Choose the best and safest litter material and substrate for your hamster. Paper based substrate is one of the safest and hamsters love it - it's nice and soft. Avoid wood based beddings unless it says on the packet that it is "pine" and that...
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You'll get there - my poor first hamster had quite a few changes and adjustments at first as I had to work things out to get them right! He had that pink shelf too (although it was a different colour). I only replaced it with a large house when the ladder snapped while I was cleaning it one day!
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Jain has already sent for the Rosewood hay sand bath so it won't be heavy and can sit on the substrate
Now it all makes sense but does all the poo and food stay in the top couple of inches or would I need to carefully lift it all up to check the bottom of the cage I did a bit of a check while Pete was out yesterday and trying to pick out the bits took me ages plus some chewed up bits and shells were right at the bottom I'd left it 18 days and didn't like the idea there would be lots of poo in there by now. Pete didn't seem to realise I'd been fishing around more busy re doing his tunnels which unfortunately I'd collapsed. So much to learn but I'm willing to take advice and do my best.Ha ha - sorry my eyesight isn't the greatest. There is information about substrate on this article
The advantage to this is you very rarely need to do a substrate change, and just "spot clean" mostly and easily go three months or more without needing to change the substrate - and even then you can keep at least half of it that is clean and replace that when you add new and mix it in. This keeps it familiar smelling for the hamster and really helps avoid stress. Cleaning them out can be very stressful if all their scent is removed in one go. It also means that you rarely need to buy substrate, once you have the cage full. So it actually works out cheaper in the long run. The historic way of keeping minimal substrate and regular clean outs is not good for them. The bedding depth discussion is further down this article.
Hamster Bedding and Substrate
Choose the best and safest litter material and substrate for your hamster. Paper based substrate is one of the safest and hamsters love it - it's nice and soft. Avoid wood based beddings unless it says on the packet that it is "pine" and that...
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It's best to leave their hoards alone - they can get really stressed if the hoard is removed. They only really hoard dried food and it lasts a very long time just hoarded. I only "prune" the hoard when doing a substrate change after a few months when it has usually got quite large. I then "prune out" the bottom half of it - which is the oldest food - and leave the top half. The only time a hoard needs removing is if it's pee'd on and has got stinky - they don't normally pee on their hoards but they can start peeing on their hoards if you remove it! That can be a vicious circle. They get so anxious about having their hoard "stolen" that they can start peeing on it to deter thieves (ie strongly scent marking it). So even if pee'd on it's best to leave a little bit of the old hoard behind that's dry and always add new food in the same place to replace the removed hoard.
They actually do most of their eating directly from their hoards - in private - or snacking in bed. With enough substrate, they usually bury the hoard under the nesting area. Which also helps preserve it a bit. They do have some quite good natural instincts.
With poops - you don't want to worry about those unless they start taking over in a big way. They're not actually dirty or smelly - they're more like little seeds and they are corophagic animals (ie they sometimes eat their own poops). It's all hard wiring for food shortages in the wild. They have two stomachs and can redigest nutrients from their poops. So don't worry about poops unless you see quite a lot all over the top then you just spot clean out the odd handful of substrate, add a new handful and mix it in so it still smells familiar.
Basically it's their mess - and they like to organise their mess and make a mess to a degree! The only thing that is unhygienic is their pee. With 6" of substrate the cage base stays clean and dry usually. They usually eat any fresh food like veg straight away and don't hoard it - but it's one reason to only give a tiny piece. One of the pet charities describes the size as - no bigger than their ear. Which is a good way to describe the size of veg!
If you are concerned they may have hoarded something like veg or chicken you could have a poke around occasionally, but generally the like the nest and hoard left well alone - those two areas are their most precious and personal things!
They actually do most of their eating directly from their hoards - in private - or snacking in bed. With enough substrate, they usually bury the hoard under the nesting area. Which also helps preserve it a bit. They do have some quite good natural instincts.
With poops - you don't want to worry about those unless they start taking over in a big way. They're not actually dirty or smelly - they're more like little seeds and they are corophagic animals (ie they sometimes eat their own poops). It's all hard wiring for food shortages in the wild. They have two stomachs and can redigest nutrients from their poops. So don't worry about poops unless you see quite a lot all over the top then you just spot clean out the odd handful of substrate, add a new handful and mix it in so it still smells familiar.
Basically it's their mess - and they like to organise their mess and make a mess to a degree! The only thing that is unhygienic is their pee. With 6" of substrate the cage base stays clean and dry usually. They usually eat any fresh food like veg straight away and don't hoard it - but it's one reason to only give a tiny piece. One of the pet charities describes the size as - no bigger than their ear. Which is a good way to describe the size of veg!
If you are concerned they may have hoarded something like veg or chicken you could have a poke around occasionally, but generally the like the nest and hoard left well alone - those two areas are their most precious and personal things!