Homemade hamster diet - need input.

Angel's Teddybear

Angel's Teddybear

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I finished the draft with the calculations, but I am confused about a few things. How do I calculate the percentage of fat, fiber, and protein in my draft? And, are there a percents I should change or anything I should adjust? I am going to be feeding the veggies outside of the homemade diet to make sure if there is a problem it is easy to not feed. (I am using higgins and mazuri rat and mouse currently, but it is upsetting angels stomach.) Any input is much appreciated!!
 

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It is a very complex thing and the dietary nutrients do need calculating. I think @Daisy spent a long time making a spreadsheet for her own use and may be able to give some tips. You have to be a bit careful with home made diets as an imbalance of nutrients can cause health issues or fur loss.

Some of the "home made" mixes that are for sale, rely too much on things like lentils for protein as well in my opinion, and lentils can cause digestive issues with syrians if they have too many. Or the other danger is if they just don't eat them.

The one that used to be seen as a good base is on a German website called Die Brain. They tend to rely on insects for protein and not all hamsters will eat those either! It's really important to have the correct level of protein, especially in the first year.

It's in German but you can use google to translate the page :-) I nearly decided to do it once but found it worked out very expensive trying to source all the ingredients. However I know it's hard to get good commercial mixes in the US - I think quite a few people buy the Getzoo mixes from Germany - which also aren't cheap with shipping. And they still need protein adding.

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Thank you guys so much!! I’ll definitely take a look at those! Do you think I should lower the amount of lentils?
 
Hello,

I personally am not a fan of mixing homemade diets using only the fat-protein-fibre method. That's because it doesn't take into account vitamins and minerals and you can end up with a diet with "perfect" percentages of fat and protein which is seriously deficient in some critical nutrients.

It's also because fat, protein and fibre are actually the nutrients where you have the most leeway. Fibre you don't really need to bother with at all (the only reason it's listed alongside fat and protein is due to US regulations on human nutrition labelling). With fat and protein, there is a fairly wide range which seems to be safe and adequate rather than a specific percentage to aim for.

This is why I made this spreadsheet and notes: https://gerbilforum.proboards.com/thread/35223/nutrition-database-calculator

Although it's currently focused on gerbils, it can be used for hamsters and I am currently working on updating the spreadsheet and all of the notes to be for both hamsters and gerbils. Unfortunately that is taking a long time!

I recommend a bottom-up approach to food mixing where you start with the vitamins and minerals and then if the fat and protein percentages look off you can make adjustments afterwards.

With regard to lentils, I don't think the quantity in your mix is excessive though I probably wouldn't go any higher. Lentils contain antinutrients which can affect the absorption of other nutrients so shouldn't be used in high quantities. You can sprout them to reduce the levels of these antinutrients and increase their overall nutrition.

I'm going to plug your mix into my database and post again with more detailed advice in a little bit.
 
Thanks Daisy that is very helpful. Personally I wouldn't use lentils at all. There are other sources of protein and they're not necessary. You can use things like freeze dried chicken bits, dried prawns or shrimps and roasted soya beans. Although with using things like the dried chicken and prawns, they have a lifespan and can go off and smell bad (which probably isn't good to be eaten!) so then it can be better to either mix up less more often, or make a large amount and add the chicken, prawns etc later.

I'm afraid I couldn't read your attachment properly! My eyesight isn't the best and a photo loses definition. You can actually upload word and pdf files on here with the "attach files" link, the same as photos - if that's possible it would be easier to read :)
 
I've put your mix into my database and it looks fairly good.

The biggest issue I noticed is that you have lots of small seeds which are unlikely to be eaten by a Syrian hamster and that would throw the nutrition off.

These are very unlikely to be eaten by a Syrian: perilla seed, poppy seed, camelina seed.
Sesame seeds may be eaten. It depends on the individual Syrian. Most Syrians will eat flaxseed and the other seeds in your mix.

Taking the smaller seeds out of the mix leaves the calcium level a bit low. If it were me I would take the mealworms out and replace them with more black soldier fly larvae as these are high in calcium. Mealworms are okay as treats but not ideal as a main protein source as they are low in calcium and high in phosphorus. Replacing them with black soldier fly larvae boosts the calcium to a safer level, although it is still lower than phosphorus. Due to the way calcium and phosphorus interact in the body, you should aim for calcium to be at least as high as phosphorus and at least 300mg/100g. You can also consider adding some alfalfa in some form (e.g dried or pelleted) as this is high in calcium.

You might also find that your hamster doesn't eat the millet but that can be easily replaced with any larger grains.

Make sure your hamster eats the dried leaves and flowers as not all hamsters do. If he/she doesn't eat the marigold petals, you can replace them with dried carrot. It's important to have at least one orange or yellow ingredient in the mix to provide beta-carotene which is converted into Vitamin A.
 
Wish I could read the list ha ha!
 
I'll just add that some people also give a couple of commercial pellets daily along with a home made mix, just to make sure there is no deficiency if the hamster doesn't eat some of the things each day. I'm not sure if you can get science selective (I'm pretty sure you can get it in the US) but it's one of the better ones. It contains everything needed so may be an additional boost. It's useful for older hamsters as well (which I know yours isn't!) as they can be soaked to provide a mush if they have difficulty eating - or even a younger hamster if they break a tooth and can't eat eg.

It's on Amazon - I can't see the price as it just tells me I'm in the wrong location (being in the Uk :-)). It's probably available elsewhere though as you don't really need to buy two bags.

Science selective
 
Daisy said:
Hello,

I personally am not a fan of mixing homemade diets using only the fat-protein-fibre method. That's because it doesn't take into account vitamins and minerals and you can end up with a diet with "perfect" percentages of fat and protein which is seriously deficient in some critical nutrients.

It's also because fat, protein and fibre are actually the nutrients where you have the most leeway. Fibre you don't really need to bother with at all (the only reason it's listed alongside fat and protein is due to US regulations on human nutrition labelling). With fat and protein, there is a fairly wide range which seems to be safe and adequate rather than a specific percentage to aim for.

This is why I made this spreadsheet and notes: https://gerbilforum.proboards.com/thread/35223/nutrition-database-calculator

Although it's currently focused on gerbils, it can be used for hamsters and I am currently working on updating the spreadsheet and all of the notes to be for both hamsters and gerbils. Unfortunately that is taking a long time!

I recommend a bottom-up approach to food mixing where you start with the vitamins and minerals and then if the fat and protein percentages look off you can make adjustments afterwards.

With regard to lentils, I don't think the quantity in your mix is excessive though I probably wouldn't go any higher. Lentils contain antinutrients which can affect the absorption of other nutrients so shouldn't be used in high quantities. You can sprout them to reduce the levels of these antinutrients and increase their overall nutrition.

I'm going to plug your mix into my database and post again with more detailed advice in a little bit.
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Thank you so so much for all the information!! I’ll adjust everything accordingly. What do you recommend replacing those smaller seeds with?
 
Angel's Teddybear said:
Thank you so so much for all the information!! I’ll adjust everything accordingly. What do you recommend replacing those smaller seeds with?
Click to expand...
You don't necessarily need to replace them with anything as the mix without them still has enough fat and essential fatty acids. Increasing the quantities of the other fatty seeds will throw the calcium to phosphorus balance off even further which I wouldn't recommend. You could add some dill seeds which I think are technically a starchy/floury seed but are higher in fat than other floury seeds and are high in calcium. Not all hamsters will eat dill seeds though.
 
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I'm aiming towards 10 oil seeds, and at the moment I have 7 after removing some. Do you know any seeds high in calcium or oil seeds that you would recommend in general? I want to have at least 29 ingredients. I'll look at dill seeds, I just want to make sure Angel will eat them. (I will do a taste test after making a balanced mix.)
Daisy said:
You don't necessarily need to replace them with anything as the mix without them still has enough fat and essential fatty acids. Increasing the quantities of the other fatty seeds will throw the calcium to phosphorus balance off even further which I wouldn't recommend. You could add some dill seeds which I think are technically a starchy/floury seed but are higher in fat than other floury seeds and are high in calcium. Not all hamsters will eat dill seeds though.
Click to expand...
 
Angel's Teddybear said:
I'm aiming towards 10 oil seeds, and at the moment I have 7 after removing some. Do you know any seeds high in calcium or oil seeds that you would recommend in general? I want to have at least 29 ingredients. I'll look at dill seeds, I just want to make sure Angel will eat them. (I will do a taste test after making a balanced mix.)
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I don't know any others aside from dill seeds unfortunately. This is just my opinion, but I don't think it's necessary to have loads of different ingredients in a main food mix. You can mix a balanced diet with surprisingly few ingredients and when you first start food mixing, it's much easier to start with very few ingredients and gradually add others in, than to try to start with a very long ingredients list.

My hamster mix has 7 different grains and 8 different oil seeds, plus insects and a little dried carrot, so 17 unique ingredients altogether. I think you will really struggle to find 29 unique ingredients that your hamster will eat.

You can still provide variety by feeding lots of different treats and extras each day. For example, you can feed a different vegetable each day plus other things like cheese, and your hamster will still get plenty of variety.
 
Ok, I’ll try that out! Thank you! I’ll post my 2nd draft once I’m all finished with completing it!
 
It looks good, assuming everything is eaten. The calcium could stand to be a little higher but it's not bad.

Although they are quite controversial, I am personally a believer in providing calcium-based mineral stones to my hamsters and gerbils because I believe they are able to self-regulate and only use them as much as they need to to get enough calcium, especially if it's a plain mineral stone and not flavoured in any way. Because calcium is one of most difficult nutrients to provide in a homemade diet, providing a mineral stone just gives me extra peace of mind that they have it available if they feel the need of it. Rodents can sense when they are lacking in a mineral and will try to get more of it by eating sand, licking things, even eating bedding in extreme cases. Wild rodents will chew on bones to get calcium so sometimes I also provide pieces of antler.

People claim mineral stones are dangerous but they are generally just repeating info they've read online and I am yet to read of a case where a rodent was actually harmed by a mineral stone. They are more intelligent than we give them credit for! The body also has its own mechanisms in place to prevent too much calcium being absorbed and any excess is normally just excreted out.
 
Ok, great! I’ll taste test everything with Angel when I have the ingredients. Do you have a specific mineral stone you would recommend? And how often should I give it?
 
Angel's Teddybear said:
Ok, great! I’ll taste test everything with Angel when I have the ingredients. Do you have a specific mineral stone you would recommend? And how often should I give it?
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I use these. It's best to look in the bird section for calcium blocks as the mineral stones sold for hamsters are usually flavoured and don't always contain much calcium.

I leave it in the cage all the time.
 
I'll just add I've never used one :-) But then I don't have a home made mix. The commercial mixes are supposed to contain everything needed.

An alternative might be to add two or three science selective pellets daily to balance the nutrition perhaps? They usually eat those as they seem to like the taste/smell - it smells a bit like yeasty gravy to me!
 
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