What do hamsters need in a cage? Debate thread

[heidi]

I think all hamsters actually have different environmental needs, but not many people talk about it.

For example, it’s becoming more popular for people to suggest really large sand baths for robovroski hamsters (over 1/3 of the enclosure to be sand).

For Russian hamsters, they originate in eastern Kazakhstan and southwestern Siberia (just found this online, so if I’m wrong, please correct me).

Both of these regions are very grassy, with patches of dense forestry. Unfortunately, research of wild hamsters is entirely lacking so I can’t find much on them in the wild.


However, I think due to the area, Russian hamsters should in theory have a very, very deep soil/eco earth section. I know many people are against normal soil due to its water content, so please do your own research in regards to that. I don’t personally use soil, however for future enclosures will be incorporating a small fish tank in order to properly fill with some form of eco earth substrate.

 

[elusive]

I totally agree that every hamster is an individual & all the dwarf species have slightly different requirements but I think the idea of this thread was really just to get an idea of the basics or a starting point maybe.

There is quite a lot of research out there, not nearly enough but it does give an idea of the areas where hamsters live & how they live.
There are some misconceptions about the areas they live in & there is some species cross over with areas too to some extent.
I think the problem is there is a limit to how much we can emulate the natural habitat.
Robos & the other dwarf species all need & enjoy sand but I think the idea of giving an overly large deep sand area doesn’t always work & means compromising on other things in the cage too much.
In their natural habitat hamsters won’t be burrowing in loose sand or soil, it will be compacted down & held together with plant roots & other things so a sand bath however large or a soil box doesn’t really emulate that & normal substrate is probably closer in the way they can use it though.
A dig box is a great idea but I don’t think it needs to be deep & it’s also something they can really enjoy out of the cage too.

 

[Maz]

I think plenty of deep substrate is the main thing, so then can tunnel. I'm not sure when extra large sand baths became a thing really and I'm not sure why normal sized sand baths aren't as ok as they used to be. I know I had a robo specific Rodipet one for our robo and it always seemed plenty for him. Although a large sand area is nice and you see some on stilts so there is still deep substrate under it.

As far as I'm aware, any soil areas are dry, sandy soil, similar to sand perhaps, for dwarf hamsters.

We can't really recreate that as substrate, but a cage filled with deep substrate enables them to dig tunnels and have some normal behaviours. And a couple of other substrates in digging boxes add to enrichment too.

 

[heidi]

I read it more as the minimum of specifically Russian hamsters, and didn’t see much of a point of rehashing what everyone else has said about enrichment and bedding. So yes, there are minimums in place in terms of bedding, but I stand by their being specie specific care.

I don’t think there are “wrong” ways of doing things with hamster care. As long as as follow what we know as safe, I personally find that okay. I don’t think it’s safe for a hamster to live in an environment where they display stress symptoms, or are constantly exposed to stressors or harmful substances such as small cages and irritating substrates. You can play it safe and just do what’s recommended, or you can branch out. I don’t think there’s improvements in care if we don’t try new things. For example, we would have never realised hamsters need more space if we didn’t offer it to them, and realise that certain behaviours are actually boredom behaviours.

Obviously, that’s all my opinion but I felt it still belongs on this thread.

Maz
I didn’t say they aren’t okay! It’s just becoming increasingly popular to recommend sandier cages for robovroski hamsters I’ve had a robo where 1/5 was a sand bath, and he seemed really happy with it. I had another where a 1/3 was a sand bath, and he did love that too. I think the best thing for them is majority being sand, and having a sand bath covering a large portion of the cage on stilts is a really good way of having that.

Elusive
My comment on there being not a lot of research more so meant that in terms of documentaries and information on wild hamsters is lacklustre. In my opinion, it’s not nearly enough for anyone of us to truly consider ourselves knowledgeable in the hamster department. Sure, we can say we are, but we just don’t know enough about hamster care yet. Again, my opinion, but I’m itching for the day we actually do get enough documentaries on wild hamsters of all species, to make a firm judgement on the way they like to live in the wild.

For my robo, pico, he couldn’t come out of his cage. He never got free roam time really, and so nothing could be emulated outside of his detolf. He couldn’t have a dog box outside; it all had to fit.

I think a hamsters home should be everything it needs to live. I’ve had many rescues at this point, so many of which have been abused and let down by people. I don’t mind that they bite or don’t like being touched. Their solitary, and can stay in their cages if that means they are happier.

As such, they will receive everything they need in their cage. To me, a cage that requires outside time to be fully enriched, isn’t an enriched cage. That’s how it’s worked at my rescue, at least.

My personal hamster, Cowboy, enjoys coming out for very short brief handling sessions. My other hates it. I find that ok!

 

[elusive]

I doubt the day will come when we get that kind of documentary, it would be nice if we could but I don’t think there’s the interest in that amongst the people who make those kind of things really, also as hamsters spend much of their time underground it would be very difficult to observe them in any useful way without being invasive.
As it is now I think there’s enough information to allow us to provide good hamster care & meet their needs.

I wasn’t suggesting that a hamster would have to have out of cage time to enjoy all the benefits of the various things it needs, just that for those hamsters that do have out of cage time we can provide even more enrichment for them & some things are more practical out of the cage.
I totally agree that hamsters have different characters & needs regarding interaction with us & out of cage time & will always let them lead me in how I interact with them but there is also the need to be practical with the cage set up.

My concern is that there does seem to be more of a trend to add in things like deep sand or soil that they can’t really fully use or probably don’t really need & this requires sectioning off parts of the cage in one way or another which immediately limits what the hamster can choose to do in it’s own environment.
Shallower large sand areas or soil dig boxes on platforms allow the hamster to burrow where it wants & use the cage how it chooses.
The other problem with having dig boxes of things like soil or coir in the cage is if the hamster does make a lot of use of it then that is going to end up getting mixed in with the substrate which could become a problem & require more cage cleaning than is ideal.

 

[Maz]

The coir and soul dig boxes are incredibly popular now though and almost the norm now. I also have slight concerns about dampness and moulds but maybe it’s not an issue in a very large, airy tank style cage.

Out of cage time and handling I think is important but hamsters will vary as to how much they want or need.

But yes at night they are in their cages and need a lot of space and enrichment

 

[heidi]

Why knock it before you try it?

I have one hamster who couldn’t care any less for deep soil baths. However, he loves his deep sand bath. It doesn’t take up a huge area of his cage, it’s 30-33cm in diameter I believe.

My other hamster adores coco coir when I give it to him. I believe a mini fish tank in his cage would make him really happy actually.

Not all hamsters can follow the same guide. Some hamsters will benefit from a huge sand bath, or a deep coir digging area. Honestly, I won’t even bash people who have their cages predominantly as coco coir. I think it’s interesting, and worth the attempt to better everyone else’s hamsters lives.

I had one rescue who refused to burrow in soft beddings. She was a real wild spirit, typical female Syrian. She slept on hard coconut husks instead, with a bit of paper bedding. I wish I had given her a tank of soil.

Another hot take, but I think mainly female Syrian hamsters need new care. It’s not right that it’s very common that they always need more space or always display boredom signs even in large cages. Obviously not every case, but I think we’ve all seen how hard certain girls can be. At least, my rescue has had a few absolute nutters. I think these hamsters in particular need their care to be revamped. I don’t think our care is good for them.

I also think good animal welfare is becoming ever more apparent, especially with younger generations. We’ve made leaps and bounds since 1990, what makes you so adamant that this is good welfare? We thought a small plastic cage was great back then. Who’s to say in the next 30 years, care will have transformed again? I think there is ever growing interest in rodent care. I genuinely do believe we will get documentaries on hamsters in the future too.

We have thousands of documentaries of small animals in underground burrows. I highly recommend you look them up

 

[Daisy]

In order to get video of small animals in burrows, they have to stick long arm cameras down and occasionally actually excavate part of the burrow. It's quite invasive so I don't it should be done too often, especially considering there may be baby hamsters in nests which may be endangered by that kind of disturbance. I think that knowledge of wild hamsters probably isn't actually the missing ingredient here. It would be great if we knew more of course, but the problem is really knowing how we can/should imitate a natural environment in captivity, which parts are critical and which parts aren't so important etc.

I would agree that there are some female Syrians who don't seem to do well at all with what we currently offer them. Sometimes I wonder if the problem for them is captivity itself. These are often the hamsters that, when let out for free roaming, will head straight for a closed door and try to burrow under it even though they have loads of space to run around. It's like they resent the very fact of being restricted in their space almost regardless of the amount of space they have access to. More space obviously helps because they feel less constricted and the additional enrichment keeps them distracted from trying to escape for longer, but sometimes they never quite seem content which is quite sad really.

In the past people used to attempt tanks filled with soil occasionally and I think it can work out. I don't think coco coir would be a good option for this. It's far too dusty when dry and then stays too damp when wet. If it's to be the whole enclosure, it probably needs to be an untreated, clean peat mixed with sand and other things to regulate the moisture levels. I think it could be a very intriguing project if done properly and would be one of the closest things possible to a hamster's natural environment. Coco coir is probably okay for small areas but if it were the whole enclosure, I would be worried about the possible effect of constant dampness on a hamster's health, bearing in mind they're not exposed to constant damp in the wild. I don't anyone here is exactly knocking anything by the way, just discussing our thoughts on different ideas about hamster care, including the positives and negatives

 

[Maz]

There are some interesting points raised about female Syrians generally and I have often thought it's due to hormones. We don't know what they think or feel. Many of them will never have the opportunity to have babies and they may have some instinct to do so that is frustrated somehow. But there are also many happy female Syrian pets and I think they need to plenty to do. As well as the space they need things to rip up sometimes. And it's for hamsters like that, who seem to never have enough space, that I think it's even more important they are fully hand tamed and can bond with an owner.

 

[Maz]

I've moved these posts to a new thread as there is a lot to debate and it's interesting Veer's original thread was about dwarf hamsters and what was the minimum needed for enrichment

 

[elusive]

It is an intriguing idea to offer a hamster a tank of soil & see what they do, it would certainly be interesting but I’m still unsure it could be done in a practical & safe way.
Peat (which I wouldn’t recommend due to it be so unsustainable) has many similar properties to coir really, not quite as dusty but when dry it is very light with small particles & even mixed with sand wouldn’t form burrows, it would need to be wet to do that & it does absorb moisture like a sponge.
Sterilised top soil might work but even if sterilised you would have no idea exactly what’s in it so it might still not be safe.
I’m also trying to imagine how you find a pee spot in a tank full of soil

As the thread topic has changed I’ll just say I have zero experience with female syrians so can’t comment on that.