Starch to Oil Ratio

[dug0361]

Hi Guys, I’ve been researching into hamster nutrition and I noticed a lot of people on threads and social media recommend a mix with a starch to oil ratio of 60:40 to 80:20 but no one actually mentions where they are getting this information from. Does anyone know what credible source suggests this ratio or where the starch to oil ratio concept came from? Thank you

 

[elusive]

Hello & welcome to the forum.

This concept originated in Germany & a lot of German owners & companies that sell food use it, I don’t have any links to references to hand but may be able to find some.
It was based on studies of what hamsters eat in the wilc.

 

[dug0361]

Hello & welcome to the forum.

This concept originated in Germany & a lot of German owners & companies that sell food use it, I don’t have any links to references to hand but may be able to find some.
It was based on studies of what hamsters eat in the wilc.

Thank you for the quick response That explains a lot, I’ve been looking for references in English and couldn’t find any. Do you happen to know the name of any of these studies? I’m researching the topic for my dissertation so I can only cite scientific sources which is proving to be difficult

 

[elusive]

That sounds like a great dissertation!
I can understand that you need scientific studies but they can be hard to come by, I’ve just been looking to see if I could find some of my old reference sources but a lot of the info that was arond online years ago seems to have dissapeared, or I’m hopeless at finding it.
There is something called “The Kipi concept” and there is a book I think but maybe only in German, I think this relates to dwarf hamsters only though.
I’ll keep looking & see if I can dig anything up.

 

[dug0361]

That sounds like a great dissertation!
I can understand that you need scientific studies but they can be hard to come by, I’ve just been looking to see if I could find some of my old reference sources but a lot of the info that was arond online years ago seems to have dissapeared, or I’m hopeless at finding it.
There is something called “The Kipi concept” and there is a book I think but maybe only in German, I think this relates to dwarf hamsters only though.
I’ll keep looking & see if I can dig anything up.

Thank you, I’ll have a look at it and see if I can translate it. Hopefully someone who is German chimes in!

 

[RainbowBrite]

Welcome to the forum. What a brilliant topic you are writing your dissertation on.

Like you, I spent a lot of time researching into hamster food and nutrition but found very little information. Most of it seems to be word of mouth. The KIPI concept seems to be based on somebody who keeps hamsters and her own experiences. I could only find the book in German without any translation so was unable to read it myself.

 

[Member ID2]

Hello and welcome to the forum!

I believe the author of the Kipi Konzept 2018 Handbuch (reference book) is Eva Kunze.

You may be able to find more info on the German forum 'das hamsterforum' via google translate.

 

[Member ID2]

Das Kipi-Konzept by Kunze, Eva - Amazon.ae

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www.amazon.ae

 

[Member ID2]

Just had a quick look at the book description in German and yes, it is based on dwarf hamsters and nutrition aimed to help prevent diseases like diabetes.

 

[elusive]

It’s a shame that book isn’t available in English it would probably be a good read.
I had a quick look on the German forum but there’s so many adverts on there now I find it hard to read anything!
I’m sure there was a lot more info on line when I first started looking into making my own mix but I think that was around 7 years ago now & things have changed.

 

[Member ID2]

I was wondering if it would be helpful to look into Rodipet food but Rodipet isn't highly rated in Germany, going by the info i gathered.
Futterkrämerei appears to be the one to go for when following the kipi konzept diet.
www.futterkraemerei.com

 

[dug0361]

Just had a quick look at the book description in German and yes, it is based on dwarf hamsters and nutrition aimed to help prevent diseases like diabetes.

Thank you I’ve just purchased the book and am going to have a crack at researching it. I did a bit of research on the author and it doesn’t seem like she has any formal experience or qualifications related to animal nutrition/hamster care which makes me a bit wary of the reliability of the information but I’m sure it’ll be a good read none the less!

 

[Member ID2]

Hopfully you will find links to scientific evidence and detailed info on the starch to oil ratio.

 

[dug0361]

I was wondering if it would be helpful to look into Rodipet food but Rodipet isn't highly rated in Germany, going by the info i gathered.
Futterkrämerei appears to be the one to go for when following the kipi konzept diet.
www.futterkraemerei.com

Thats interesting because rodipet food is highly rated and recommended in the UK. I’ve had a look at the rodipet website and they say that their mixes are based on research theyve conducted firsthand in Syria on wild hamster habitats alongside the veterinary university of Hannover. Sounds promising but they didnt publish any results or provide any references Will have a look at Futterkramerei

 

[dug0361]

Welcome to the forum. What a brilliant topic you are writing your dissertation on.

Like you, I spent a lot of time researching into hamster food and nutrition but found very little information. Most of it seems to be word of mouth. The KIPI concept seems to be based on somebody who keeps hamsters and her own experiences. I could only find the book in German without any translation so was unable to read it myself.

I dug a little into the author and it doesn’t seem like she has any formal experience or qualifications on animal nutrition or hamster care. Its such a shame that there’s such little research on hamster nutrition/welfare I will have to keep looking!

 

[Member ID2]

Yes, it surprised me as well about the Rodipet food. My conclusion is based on what i read on the German forum so more of a personal observation. I happen to be German but have been living in the UK for a very long time. My hamsters didn't like the Rodipet food because it is quite herby and the Syrian food is small textured.

 

[elusive]

Rodipet is one of those places that I remember having more inof about research at one time but most of that seems to have gone.
Rodipet is often recommended as it’s quite easily available (especially post Brexit) & better than most mixes available in the UK but I’m not a huge fan, it looks good in theory but I was never that impressed by the quality.

 

[Maz]

Some mixes are a bit herby but some are ok. I used to use the junior Syrian one. The senior Syrian one was a bit herby.

It can be hard to find scientific research on hamster diet. That could even be part of your dissertation. That more research needs to be done (that doesn’t actually harm animals). There has been some research done into the hamster pre gastric pouch (second stomach) so maybe if you search that, you may find some info. There is one piece linked on the home page food article which claims hamsters aren’t lactose intolerant (but doesn’t look into long term effects of digesting lactose). If any of those links are useful for you.

Safe and Unsafe Food list for Hamsters

Many human foods are safe for hamsters, but some are toxic to hamsters. Our researched and referenced food list gives up to date information on safe and unsafe foods for hamsters.

www.thehamsterforum.com

 

[Maz]

Assume you’ve see this one? The section on lipids. Unfortunately it’s about laboratory animals.

Nutrient Requirements of the Hamster - Nutrient Requirements of Laboratory Animals - NCBI Bookshelf

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

 

[Daisy]

The starch oil ratio concept isn't exactly based on specific research so it may be challenging to do a dissertation on it. I'm not sure where it originated but it's more of an anecdotal concept. Unfortunately there is extremely little scientific research into hamster nutrition that is applicable to pet hamsters.

I do use a kind of starch oil ratio as a starting point when I mix my rodent foods but then I tweak things where needed so it doesn't end up being an exact figure like 60:40 or 80:20. I think it's a useful concept for structuring mixes but not the be all and end all.