Bedding depth debate

Maz

Maz

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I thought we could start a thread on bedding depth views. There are plenty of statistics flying around but people have different experiences and different views. So this isn't intended to be a heated debate by any means - just to share our views and thoughts and experiences.

There has never been any "official" source of bedding depth although it's fairly widely known that hamsters like digging and plenty of substrate is necessary for a variety of reasons and also has cage cleaning benefits.

So with the new care guides just published by the Blue Cross and PDSA - one is recommending at least 20cm of substrate, the other says a cage should be able to "accommodate" 40cm of substrate. The Swiss legislation says a minimum of 15cm. Various German sites used to promote 30cm of bedding (I'm not sure if this is still current).

15cm of substrate is basically the height of most cage bases in barred cages - although it's possible to have more by putting bedding protection round the inside bars.

It is a topic that brings up questions. I'm sure many of us are happy with what we're doing. And we've always said - at least 6" (15cm) of bedding.

Going back to stastics and guidelines - there is a big difference between an average of 15 to 20cm of bedding/substrate in most of the cage with a deep bedding end or area of deeper substrate and this can also provide an interesting variety of levels for a hamster in the cage. Than there is between a solid level of 30cm or 40cm of bedding throughout a cage, and that is something that gives some scope for how people interpret things as well.

Some of this isn't new - I think it's been widely thought, for a long time, that a good amount of substrate is a good thing, but it has been very much been up to personal choice and interpretation and individual styles of set up - which I think still should be the case and we adjust our set ups at times, to suit the particular hamster's preferences.

I've had varying experiences of bedding levels with various different hamsters. I think a good sized house is important, as that mimics a burrow and makes life easier for the hamster - regardless of how much bedding there is - they need the option to have a place under cover to build a big cosy nest regardless of their digging habits or otherwise.

I've had Syrians and robos for a few years. Both very different in terms of cage behaviour in many ways I think.

Also I think the hamster's life is not just in it's cage (ideally) - except at night. And it could open an even wider debate as to what actually makes hamsters happy? Being in the cage or being out of the cage and roaming?! Both probably.

I think of our pet hamsters as domesticated hamsters. They do have natural and behaviours and instincts they need fulfilling and seem hard wired in many ways - with hoarding, foraging and nest building in particular. But I don't necessarily think recreating their life in the wild is a main consideration - in the wild they don't live very long and they don't have wheels! They dig burrows to keep safe underground, where predators can't get at them. So some of this is a feeling of safety (which is why I think a large house is important as it mimics a safe burrow).

Anyway - this is more a topic for interest and discussion than over any specific guidelines currently mentioned. Guidelines are there to encourage good standards. A guideline is better than no guideline or we'd be back to people having a thin layer of substrate on the bottom of a cage and doing weekly clean outs.
 
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Even though they are domesticated animals it isn’t considered that long that Russian hams have been domesticated, longer for Syrians & I’m not sure about Chinese so I do think it’s important to allow for as much natural instinctive behaviour as possible.
I think the large multichamber houses only mimic burrows to a limited extent & while having that covered, protected area is important allowing for burrowing is too, this might be different with different species, my Chinese burrow a lot more than my Russians & the house is only a part of that burrow system, I’m sure a lot of Syrians are really happy with a house & what we would consider a normal or acceptable amount of bedding but having seen some of the really extensive burrows in some very deep German cages I can’t help feeling it would be nice to give them that opportunity.
My dilemma is that I really do prefer barred cages but the base limits the amount of substrate I can provide although it still seems enough to keep my hams happy I would like to provide deeper substrate but using acrylic panels or anything else to make it deeper limits the space above too much so it comes back to cages in the end!
I think guidelines are important but hams are so individual we have to adjust to what they want & need.
 
I like to follow the German guide which is to have 25cm of bedding minimum and as well as a MCH. As Elusive says, they may be domesticated but I still think it is important to provide an opportunity to let them create deep burrows and tunnels.
 
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Albert has a HH cage. I fill the base with substrate to the very top. I've put cardboard part way around the cage to stop the substrate spilling out. Albert loves making tunnels and chambers.
 
When i moved Syrian Clive into his Plaza with added acrylic panels in the burrowing area, he burrowed.
And then he stopped and moved back into his house. He walks around on top of the burrowing area but he doesn't burrow.
I have no idea why and none of the other Syrians have ever burrowed.
I never measure the substrate depth and go more by what the individual hamster does.

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I think that just goes to show how individual hamsters are!
I don’t tend to measure things either & with some experience it gets easier to judge what a hamster does or doesn’t want or need but having some good guidelines in place is helpful for people starting out.
 
I had a similar thing with our first Syrian. When I gave him deep bedding (it was more like 25cm than 30cm) he did dig a burrow with two tunnels leading out of it - but the tunnels both came up under something. One came up under a shelf, the other under a small house - so he seemed to like overhead cover when emerging. He used the one that came up under the house all the time but didn't seem very happy. His ears were flat all the time. I replaced the small house with a guinea pig one over the tunnel and he immediately moved into that, built a big nest and abandoned his burrow and tunnels. And moved his toilet area into a corner of the house. It was much easier to manage for both of us! And he seemed much happier so I went back to 15 cm of bedding with a slightly deeper end - which he ignored. Syrians vary in personality though!

I think a deeper bedding end is an idea. And I find some hamsters will shift a lot of the substrate to an area if they want it deeper - leaving a hole in the substrate which I then fill in!

Both our robos have tunnelled but also used their multiroom houses and even the toilet inside the multiroom house. Our first robo had two nests - one in his multiroom house and another across the cage that was in front of his wheel and under a piece of cork bark. He had quite a nice cosy burrow under the cork bark which he seemed to see as a roof so it wasn't very deep. But that was his "emergency" nest! He only moved to it if I cleaned out the house end of his cage. Then he'd move back again when I cleaned out the other end of the cage at another time.

Pip (Robo) has 25cm of substrate and no burrows! He uses the multiroom house but also hoards under it.
 
I'm the same about preferring cages Elusive - mainly for wanting large opening front access. I used to drool about some of the amazing tank set ups the Germans had, and when I got our first robo I did something like that for him - it wasn't a huge tank - it was the Kerry Terrarium so about Hamster Heaven sized. It looked amazing and I didn't have to worry about substrate falling out. Nugget seemed happy enough with it but I wasn't used to not having front access. Or actually open space between me and the hamster at the front. For interaction. I tried with it but really couldn't get on with the top access only - also Nugget was a particularly nervy robo and hated the noise of the top opening above him. So in the end I moved him to the (slightly larger) Mickey 2XL (for those who don't know, it's basically a hamster heaven but has narrow bars - not made any more I think).

He was happy as larry in there - he had the same set up as before and the same amount of substrate (about 6"), I could fit an extra wheel in (saucer). So it just worked better for me, as an owner and the hamster was happy. What I loved was sitting with the door open talking to him and no barrier between us. And that was our relationship. Eventually he would just walk into a snooze cube if I put it through the front door. It didn't look as amazing but it was basically the same set up! Except for a shelf instead of a platform.

Again it depends on the hamster to some degree - some rescue hamsters have had traumatic pasts and are more anxious than others about noise or hands.

Having said that I always thought Nugget (the robo) would have benefitted from an even bigger cage than that - they are so fast and energetic - but it was a nice spacious set up for him with a lot to do.
 
I will add that I do think Pip tunnels between places - and robos do tend to be tunnelers - but he tends to use the house end as his living area and the rest of the cage as his playground and snacking areas. He loves sitting on his shelf or under his rainbow bridge. He is incredibly easy to spot clean as he only pees in the toilet or underneath it so just one damp area of substrate.
 
I still pontificate about why hamsters do things - whether it's natural instincts and behaviours, just because they can, whether it's to feel secure being "under" something (which is quite an instinct). If only they could talk!
 
Now if the tank had a front opening door - that might be different! The exo terra terrariums were very popular for that - a glass tank with front opening - the downside being the bedding limit again or it would fall out of the doors. I saw some set ups though where people only used one door and had the other end with deep bedding.
 
I never really liked the idea of having a deep area, I can just imagine my Chinese getting very frustrated if their burrows ended up going nowhere & with them I can’t see a deep area staying in one place for long, they really like to burrow across the whole cage & anything that gets in the way gets shifted!
 
Shifting substrate is definitely something hamsters seem to do! They are very good at building a huge pile of substrate as a way of getting out of the top of a cage! ie walking up it to the top and pushing the lid open! That has happened to a number of people!

I can see that point as well - it's then more just a digging area than a tunneling area.
 
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I agree with Elusive. I think it is more fun to be able to dig were they wish too. We all know how we view things is very different from how hamsters view things such as a bridge will be ignored and they will find a complicated way to reach an area.
 
I will never forget Zephyr digging & making mounds of substrate next to her wheel so she could run up over the top & down the other side, she seemed to think that was much more fun than doing it the conventional way!
 
Some of you might remember Raffy's digging antics. When I first got him, the house hadn't arrived so I made a large shoebox house. I also tried a different kind of layout, for a change - which didn't work very well! The idea was to have the house central in the cage, to break up the amount of space a bit as he was so tiny, so he didn't feel too overwhelmed. However he was highly active and maverick and not a bit overwhelmed by the amount of space. He used the house but didn't really nest in it and instead of coming out of the door at the front, would tunnel under the back instead - to his wheel! Which was behind the house. As suspected (and suggested by Beryl) he was just taking the easy option to get to the wheel rather than come out of the front (in the wrong direction) and go over the top of the house. Of course his wheel kept getting jammed up and he also looked annoyed at the pile of substrate (which he created!) as if someone else had put it there.

Changing their layout though can stress them. But eventually I put the new multiroom house in, at one end of the cage instead of in the middle. It's on legs and sits just as high as the shoebox did. But he only uses the door now - because there's nothing behind the house! So some is just logic! He does burrow down inside his house a bit but not under it and doesn't dig tunnels any more. But then he is either asleep or wanting to be out of the cage usually. He knows coming out means free roaming and he wants out!

When he's in the cage at night he spends a lot of time sitting in a corner under his shelf washing and snacking, in between wheeling.

I've always gone with "overhead cover" being important - they sit under things and nest under things to feel secure from above which is probably another natural instinct.
 
Young Raffy sounds like a barrel of laughs! He stil is too.

I found my Russians always use the door to a house & tend to burrow & tunnel elsewhere in the cage.
Chinese never use the door to a house, they sometimes squeeze out of what seems like an impossibly small space between the house & the wall of the cage but will usually burrow out keeping the burrow entrance as far from the house as they can, instinct again to protect the nest.
 
Going back to a "deep end" it maybe depends what proportion it is. Some people have a large sand area as a "shallow end" which makes the other end the deep end. And also create different levels in cages. I'm in two minds about a few different levels of terrain for the very reason mentioned above - it puts a barrier for them to use the whole cage underneath the substrate and kind of segments it - even if it adds a more interesting terrain above ground.

If we literally recreated what they have in the wild, it would be a ton of soil with food scattered on top! And a wheel above that (because no cage will be big enough for exercise without a wheel.

I like to think our hamsters benefit a bit from things they don't get in the wild as well - like nice soft substrate and good food and treats. And a human companion to interact with - I have had a very close bond with some hamsters - and they trust you. But still important to allow them to have their natural behaviours - particularly foraging and nest building.

I came across something interesting on a Swiss animal welfare piece though - about how they determine the size of wheel. In Germany they often had much bigger wheels than the usual 11" or 12" and I wondered why. The Swiss animal welfare uses a calculation - that the diameter of the wheel should be twice the length of the hamster's body. Now whether that is just somebody's idea or a ball park figure, or actually necessary, I'm not sure, but it does seem to suggest why there are some 32cm wheels around. Raffy actually has a 32cm wheel. I don't think it's necessary but it was the only size I could get before Rodipet stopped making their wood wheels - but he does love it and it's silent! I think 12" is more than enough for any Syrian and 11" is fine for most.
 
And sofas to climb ha ha!
 
I think Beryl's point is very good though. That we don't go round measuring the substrate exactly - also it can get flattened and hamsters can move it and rearrange it - but a guideline to the amount needed is good.
 
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