Pet stores selling animals - debate

[Maz]

This is a big topic, but I noticed someone has started a petition to stop a certain large Uk pet store from selling live animals. I think it would be better if animals weren't sold from pet stores, but then it makes you wonder what would happen? Would it lead to a surge in backstreet breeders instead? Where would people get hamsters from? There are hamster rescues but would they actually have a shortage of hamsters to rescue if pet stores no longer sold hamsters? The vast majority of hamsters in rescues, originally came from pet stores.

This has been done in one US state - ie all pet stores banned from selling live animals. I'm wondering what the longer term effect has been since then. For example all the breeders who sold to pet stores, are presumably advertising hamsters directly now?

 

[Socks' Mum]

It would take away the popped out for bread and milk and bought a hamster impulse buying. One session with a staff member and a leaflet isn't enough to prepare a potential hamster custodian for life with a hamster

 

[Maz]

Yes that's a good point - it would take away some of the impulse buying in shops. I suppose there could still be online impulse buying from breeder ads, but that's not quite the same.

 

[Socks' Mum]

A ban would affect the rodent mills, which would reduce the number of hamsters in circulation. There would be less availability of them as a commodity and the cost should go up. If they are harder to sell and to buy, it might benefit hamsters as they would be more valued and people would invest more in keeping them healthy, keeping one hamster and valuing him or her more.

 

[Socks' Mum]

The demand for laboratory animals is hopefully going down with the tighter regulation of cosmetic testing and advances in medical testing. That would hopefully also reduce the number of hamsters in circulation, and make mass hamster breeding less profitable

 

[Yorkie]

Personally I think if the cost and standards went up in pet stores ,like everything ethical. Hamsters would be cherished for the gorgeous little beings they are. Cages ,accessories etc should all be ethical,rodent.mills.should be banned and all owners should have to do a survey or questionnaire before being allowed an hamster. But it's never going to happen,as the government won't even pass a law on cage size.

 

[Maz]

You're right there, but even then, pet stores want to make profit - presumably they make profit from using cheap breeders. It would need the gov to
1) Set a minimum cage size allowed to be sold
2) Require any breeders to be government licenced

And I still think there would be loopholes with the breeding aspect. Whereas if they just banned pet stores from selling hamsters (or animals generally), then there wouldn't be mass bad breeding, hamsters being shipped in containers etc etc.

And then only licenced breeders could sell to the public (ie they'd have to be accepted by the NHC or something). That would probably create a shortage of hamsters or long waiting lists for those who want a hamster, so no doubt there would still be some illegal or backstreet breeders finding loopholes in the legislation (ie claiming accidental litters or something).

I don't really know what the answer is!

 

[Rescued One]

I think a reasonable solution would be as follows: the pet store sells food and supplies and refers customers out to a list of registered, government regulated and approved rescues and breeders in the local area.

 

[Maz]

That sounds good yes.

 

[Rescued One]

You're right there, but even then, pet stores want to make profit - presumably they make profit from using cheap breeders. It would need the gov to
1) Set a minimum cage size allowed to be sold
2) Require any breeders to be government licenced

And I still think there would be loopholes with the breeding aspect. Whereas if they just banned pet stores from selling hamsters (or animals generally), then there wouldn't be mass bad breeding, hamsters being shipped in containers etc etc.

And then only licenced breeders could sell to the public (ie they'd have to be accepted by the NHC or something). That would probably create a shortage of hamsters or long waiting lists for those who want a hamster, so no doubt there would still be some illegal or backstreet breeders finding loopholes in the legislation (ie claiming accidental litters or something).

I don't really know what the answer is!

I agree. Sadly, until the animal's welfare is the top priority, there will always be people who value profit over animal welfare.

 

[Maz]

I agree. Sadly, until the animal's welfare is the top priority, there will always be people who value profit over animal welfare.

Businesses like pet stores are always going to be looking for profit - it's the nature of business. They perhaps turn a blind eye to where the hamsters come from ...........

 

[Lovelyness]

The government can't even sort out puppy farming and ethical breeding, so sadly I don't hold out much hope for ethical breeding of hamsters.

 

[Yorkie]

You're right there, but even then, pet stores want to make profit - presumably they make profit from using cheap breeders. It would need the gov to
1) Set a minimum cage size allowed to be sold
2) Require any breeders to be government licenced

And I still think there would be loopholes with the breeding aspect. Whereas if they just banned pet stores from selling hamsters (or animals generally), then there wouldn't be mass bad breeding, hamsters being shipped in containers etc etc.

And then only licenced breeders could sell to the public (ie they'd have to be accepted by the NHC or something). That would probably create a shortage of hamsters or long waiting lists for those who want a hamster, so no doubt there would still be some illegal or backstreet breeders finding loopholes in the legislation (ie claiming accidental litters or something).

I don't really know what the answer is

The government can't even sort out puppy farming and ethical breeding, so sadly I don't hold out much hope for ethical breeding of hamsters.

I agree,but ethical breeding would be the only end to the hell hammy's go through . There is always gonna be backyard breeding,but standards need to be improved across the board ,starting with at least banning unsafe supplies.

 

[Lovelyness]

I totally agree...I just don't see it happening with any urgency, sadly.

 

[Maz]

I'm surprised that petition was on Change,org and not a .gov one. If it was a .gov one then if it gets more than a certain number of votes (I think it's 10,000 to be heard and 100,000 to be debated in parliament), then it's more likely to achieve some legislation to stop pet stores selling animals.

But any legislation would need to be much more than that. And need to include who CAN sell hamsters or other animals, and who decides who is suitable etc.

 

[Socks' Mum]

Pet shops seem to have stopped selling dogs and cats, but smaller species are easy to shove in a cage and put on display Even though their need for a proper habitat and enriched home is just as intense as that of a dog of cat.

 

[Maz]

Exactly. Our local pet shop stopped selling animals about 8 years ago. At one time they also had puppies! Then it was just rabbits, guinea pigs and hamsters. Our first Syrian came from there. We went there specifically to look at hamsters as it was very nearby (and I didn't know any different at the time), but even then I used to worry about how long they'd be there if someone didn't take them. I went there to look for our second one and they had stopped selling animals - I suspect someone complained or they just were having to keep them too long.

With big pet stores, they have a greater footfall of customers and, as you say, more impulse buying. But all they need to do is stop selling pets. And diversify into selling good products and having promotions. The pets are the key to sales probably - if they sell a hamster, they get to sell a cage as well.

 

[Hammy Chum]

Tricky isnt it! We got Chum from PAH. In retrospect, now knowing all I know, a reputable breeder would perhaps have helped with him being tamer. And perhaps a few other behavioural things (he is SCARED of being picked up which makes me think was something that occured in his first month or so of life, makes me sad). But we just didn't know (and were not experienced enough owners for a rescue hamster). So I think perhaps its an education piece as we went in innocently as lovely owners, all prepared (or so we thought!) wanting to find our hamster and give it a wonderful life with us.

Also I would say maybe its not ALL pet shops... we've since found a lovely smaller independent one near us who does sell animals (hamsters, rats and guinea pigs) but through a reputable local breeder she knows. Only one litter at a time, waiting list, etc. SO perhaps its just the big chains that are the issue.

 

[Socks' Mum]

Sweet Chum He is so beautiful. I think the good thing about rescues is they try to match the hamster with the people. They sometimes get in females who give birth in the rescue and the staff get a chance to handle the young hamsters and socialise them before they go to a home, especially if the hammies are born in axfoster home. Also the foster home should help them get used to living with people at close quarters, household noise and routine etc. I'm glad you have found a small scale pet shop whose breeders breed on an occasional basis and who have a waiting list. The rodent mills are cloaked in secrecy and must be pretty awful. Just big animal warehousing

 

[Maz]

Tricky isnt it! We got Chum from PAH. In retrospect, now knowing all I know, a reputable breeder would perhaps have helped with him being tamer. And perhaps a few other behavioural things (he is SCARED of being picked up which makes me think was something that occured in his first month or so of life, makes me sad). But we just didn't know (and were not experienced enough owners for a rescue hamster). So I think perhaps its an education piece as we went in innocently as lovely owners, all prepared (or so we thought!) wanting to find our hamster and give it a wonderful life with us.

Also I would say maybe its not ALL pet shops... we've since found a lovely smaller independent one near us who does sell animals (hamsters, rats and guinea pigs) but through a reputable local breeder she knows. Only one litter at a time, waiting list, etc. SO perhaps its just the big chains that are the issue.

You might be right there - the local one near us (when it still sold pets) was nice and they had their own breeder locally. Charlie was huge and very healthy.