Spruce beddings

[Maz]

As many of us have known for some time, due to some useful research found many years ago in the USA, Spruce is not the same as Pine or Fir. I came across the article many years ago, which shows the amount of phenols in Spruce compared to Hardwood - it's also in our resources section, but here it is below.

AFRMA - The Problem With Pine: A Discussion of Softwood Beddings

Spruce is a softwood but is equivalent to a hardwood in terms of the quantities of phenols (ie minimal) so spruce shavings are considered as safe as hardwood bedding. Unlike pine, which contains phenols - even if it is kiln dried.

However there can be some confusion as to what is actually spruce bedding or safe quantities of spruce in a bedding.

Apparently some owners had issues with Allspan and suspected it contained some cedar (although this is unknown) and I believe Hamster Welfare has removed Allspan from their recommended beddings list. It's widely said that Allspan is 100% Spruce, but in fact it isn't. Maybe it used to be but not these days. So I did a bit of research.

Allspan (traditionally a horse bedding) is made in Germany, Holland and France. The website says it's made from 100% untreated softwood. ie this suggests it's not kiln-dried if untreated. The website says it is "approximatetly" 95% Spruce. Which means the other 5% is untreated softwood of some other type. While 5% might not sound very much, if it is cedar (ie and not kiln dried) this could be an issue. If the Spruce itself isn't kiln-dried, that's not so much an issue, as it's extremely low in phenols, like hardwood.

This suggests it's not a good option to use. The link is here but you need to scroll down the page.

Production – ALLSPAN

The other bedding that contains Spruce is Chipsi Classic. Chipsi classic says Spruce and Fir (fir is pine basically). It is kiln-dried and German standards of kiln-drying are supposed to be very good. However it doesn't state what percentage of the bedding is Spruce and what percentage is fir. It's one reason I haven't used it before due to the uncertainty. It could be minimal Spruce and mostly fir/pine.

Again, in various places on the internet, people think it's about 75% Spruce to 25% fir but that information doesn't have any verifiable basis. It is not quoted anywhere what the proportion of Spruce is.

So I decided to email the manufacturers and ask them what the percentage of Spruce is, about 5 weeks ago. And they haven't replied!

As such there is no known source of 100% Spruce bedding - unless someone knows of one.

Personally I'd like to know what percentage of Spruce is in Chipsi Classic before considering it as something other than just kiln-dried pine. Chipsi also make scented versions of their beddings which are definitely not good for hamsters.

So I've emailed them again.

And just in case that article linked above, and in resources, ever disappears off the internet, I've saved it as a pdf - attached to this post

Just to add, another member recently (maybe @oddvon )? Mentioned Vida shavings as Spruce shavings. I've contacted them as well to see if it's 100% Spruce, which the sites that sell it seem to suggest it is. It would be good to know there is a 100% Spruce bedding available.

 

[Socks Mum]

I use aspen chips and paper. I was using hay, but Socks doesn't tunnel in it, whereas he likes digging in paper. The aspen chips (from Hay Pigs) aren't useful for tunnelling, but does make a nice airy layer of bedding under the paper and is pretty dust free. It's quite good value. Pine smells strongly and seems to envelop one, as well as being toxic. It's interesting that you got no response from Chipsi! Being non toxic would be an excellent selling point, you'd think they would take the opportunity.

 

[Maz]

I'll see if they reply this time!

 

[Daisy]

I think the issue is further complicated by the possibility that pine bedding in the US might not be the same as pine bedding in the UK or Europe, as pine is such a broad genus ranging from very aromatic species high in phenols to less aromatic species like Scots pine. It's a spectrum basically, and there's practically no way to tell if a generic bag of "softwood" shavings comes from the riskier end of the spectrum or not. Very likely the sellers don't know either because their suppliers might just be lumping together shavings from lots of different softwood trees without categorising them and it might even vary by batch. Hence why they might always not be willing to answer questions.

So if you find a bag labelled cedar shavings you can be sure it's unsafe, and a bag of 100% spruce shavings is pretty safe too, but everything in the middle is a bit of a "mystery meat".

 

[Daisy]

One day I need to do a deep dive on this as it's all so complex...

 

[Maz]

I know what you mean, I'm interested myself. I think another reason paper based or non wood beddings became more popular was not just the issues above but the fact that a hamster can potentially be allergic to any type of wood, whether softwood or hardwood.

 

[Daisy]

I know what you mean, I'm interested myself. I think another reason paper based or non wood beddings became more popular was not just the issues above but the fact that a hamster can potentially be allergic to any type of wood, whether softwood or hardwood.

That's true, and I'm allergic to most softwood shavings too so they're off the table anyway. I say most because sometimes one particular bag will be fine, and then another, even from the same brand, will cause a reaction.

 

[Maz]

I'm the same Even with hemp!

 

[Maz]

Chipsi have replied

“Unfortunately, I cannot give you exact percentage figures. As this can always change slightly.”

 

[Maz]

Vida say they usually have only spruce but sometimes it can be mixed with pine and they would say 90% spruce and 10% pine.

So it sounds like mostly it’s 100% spruce but at other times it could be a mix. I wonder if the shavings look different.

 

[Socks Mum]

Interesting! You should be able to smell the phenols, but of course you can't test a bag before you buy it, and bags may vary in content. It would be good if consumers could get definite info. I suppose most low cost wood shavings are a mix.

 

[Maz]

I asked Chipsi if they could give an approximate average of how much spruce and fir/pine. Their response was - no percentage is specified - as it has no influence on product function.

In other words it could be anything! It could be mostly for/pine with a bit of spruce or any combination of the two and probably varies with batches.

Whereas Vida say it’s almost always all spruce but sometimes there will be up to 10% pine. Which is dried before becoming shavings. Doesn’t say if it’s kiln dried or just “dried”.

 

[Socks Mum]

Those cheap wood shavings could be costly if they make pets ill

 

[Maz]

I’ve heard back from Vida shavings again (who are very friendly and helpful). If there is any pine in their shavings sometimes (she said mostly it’s all spruce but sometimes there may be about 10% pine) then it is kiln dried.

So the Vida shavings which @oddvon is using , sound the safest.

Personally I wouldn’t use Chipsi without knowing the percentages of pine/fir and spruce as it could be anything basically. However well kiln dried they are.