Suitable animal based protein

[justfamke]

Hello everyone!

I have a 3 month old female Syrian hamster, named Sybil, that doesn't eat dried insects. I originally planned to give her the Getzoo Goldhamster Basic Menu and supplement it with insect protein + some Science Selective, since I've been pretty concent with this in the past, but I quickly noticed she isn't interested in dried insects at all. I've tried offering mealworms, crickets, grasshoppers, black soldier fly larvae, silkworm pupae, gammarus and sweet water shrimp in the past month, but she likes NONE of it. She doesn't even bother to hoard it xD

I'm currently not meeting the 18%-22% overall protein need for young hamsters (I'm around 15-16%) and also not the recommended 4%-8% animal based protein need, by mixing only Getzoo and Science Selective. I have started giving her some baby food with chicken, plain cooked chicken en egg white though, but unfortunately it is very hard to tell if her protein needs are being met this way.

So I was wondering if you guys have any animal based protein recommendations, preferably freeze dried treats (pre-cooked, because of the bacteria) or maybe even a dog kibble, since that's easy calculating the amount of protein.

Famke

 

[Maz]

Hi. Yes indeed! Not necessarily animal based some of it though. It's surprising how many hamsters turn their nose up at dried bugs etc! They seem to have more discerning tastes as pets ha ha.

So for extra protein I give chopped hard boiled egg, half a walnut (or other nut) once or twice a week (for a Syrian that is - less for a dwarf hamster). You can also get freeze dried chicken bites (usually sold for cats as treats I think). They usually eat those. Other than that you can give them a bit of human meat if you've just had a roast chicken or roast beef eg - as long as it's just plain cooked meat and no sauces or spice etc. They love that. However when I give a bit of that. Our first one had pheasant, guinea fowl and grouse ha ha. As our local butcher used to sell them. That's a rarety now.

However if it's roast meat etc, only the tiniest little bit to make sure they eat it all and don't decide to hoard it or it might go off. I often only used to give meat when the hamster was out of the cage. He'd nibble what he wanted and leave the rest, so I'd then take that away in case he pouched it.

The other thing you can do is give 2 or 3 science select pellets in addition to the usual hamster mix. That ensures they get the right nutrients and protein levels and hamsters seem to like those - I think they smell like gravy or yeast. They are very small pellets.

 

[justfamke]

Thank you for your quick response @Maz . It seems like I'm already on the right track then, which is a relieve. My lady Sybil is such a diva, haha!

My only concern with freeze dried snacks is that they're almost always raw instead of pre-cooked. I believe to have read somewhere that bacteria survive the freeze drying process, which may cause harm to a hamster's health. Do you (or anyone else really) have any brand recommendations of pre-cooked freeze dried snacks?

 

[Maz]

That is a good point and has been raised before and sometimes there is not enough information on the packets to say if it's raw or pre-cooked (the chicken that is). I did use freeze dried chicken bites for cats regularly with our second Syrian and he was always healthy and lived to a grand age - but that doesn't really prove anything! I stopped getting them because they used to go off quickly after the packet was opened.

So these days I prefer to give fresh foods. Hamsters love egg! Chopped hard boiled or a bit of scrambled on a teaspoon. And they love most kinds of nuts.

 

[justfamke]

In that case I'll play it safe and leave freeze dried chicken for what it is and stick to the fresh goodies

Thank you for your informative replies!

 

[Maz]

I was just looking and so many freeze dried chicken bites don't even say if they're raw or cooked - in which case you can assume they are raw. I did find a tin of ones that said they were cooked but it was £60!

 

[Rescued One]

Mazuri rat pellets are 18% protein and are fun to chew All the rescues here use them with their hammies.

 

[justfamke]

Mazuri rat pellets are 18% protein and are fun to chew All the rescues here use them with their hammies.

@Rescued One I've totally overlooked your reply! Thanks for the tip, I'll definitely look into it

 

[Maz]

A similar alternative to that is the Science Selective pellets for hamsters It's an all in one food with the correct protein levels and all nutrients provided. Some people add 2 or 3 of those pellets to a mix with more variation, to ensure the vitamins and protein. They are also useful when a hamster is older and has difficulty eating hard food, as they can be soaked with a drop or two of water so they end up like mushy weatabix. Hamsters also seem to like them as they smell of yeast or gravy

Amazon.co.uk

 

[justfamke]

Thank you! I've already been supplementing the Science Selective alongside her Getzoo mix since the beginning and she loves it My elderly dwarf Sven also devours them when soaked in some warm water.

 

[justfamke]

So a little follow up! I've recently approached both Thrive and Applaws about the manufacturing process of their freeze dried chicken snacks, since ChatGPT recommended these brands for hamsters.

Thrive heats their raw chicken up to 75 degrees Celsius and Applaws up to 75 - 80 degrees Celcius before the freeze drying process. Basically the chicken gets pasteurized, meaning most (pathogenic) bacteria get killed (but not all), increasing product safety and shelf life.

I'm curious what you guys think. Would it be safe for hamsters to eat or still not worth the risk, since not ALL bacteria get killed in the process?

 

[Socks' Mum]

I think it depends on the bacteria involved and whether the hamster has been exposed to it previously and whether this exposure has allowed him or her to build up an immunity to the bacteria. Undercooked meat is traditionally seen as a bit of a risk. Hamsters do tend to lead sheltered lives without a wide range of exposure to bacteria. Also the overall health and age of your hammy. I would tend to go for fully cooked food if it is meat based, but other people might feel more confident about using it.

 

[Maz]

So a little follow up! I've recently approached both Thrive and Applaws about the manufacturing process of their freeze dried chicken snacks, since ChatGPT recommended these brands for hamsters.

Thrive heats their raw chicken up to 75 degrees Celsius and Applaws up to 75 - 80 degrees Celcius before the freeze drying process. Basically the chicken gets pasteurized, meaning most (pathogenic) bacteria get killed (but not all), increasing product safety and shelf life.

I'm curious what you guys think. Would it be safe for hamsters to eat or still not worth the risk, since not ALL bacteria get killed in the process?

Oh well done, that is really helpful information, thank you. I think we need to keep looking into this. From what I can see (google), pasteurising in that way would kill salmonella, but trying to find more info about if that's enough to make it safe. It seems an uncommon thing to do, pasteurising raw chicken, so couldn't find that much.

So from a bit more searching, apparently pasteurising at those temperatures does kill all bacteria. 74 degrees centigrade is the "kill zone" apparently. 80 degrees is even better.

This might explain why there doesn't seem to have been any issue with hamsters being given freeze dried chicken over the years, and it's even in some non commercial mixes available. I have given it myself in the past, although I had always assumed it was cooked! It looked white. The one thing I do remember though was (mine came in small sealed packs) once the pack was open it went off very quickly. I can't remember how long it said it needed using by on the pack - possibly 14 days or even less, I can't remember. Which is why I stopped getting it some years ago as it wasn't very cost effective like that as I used so little of the pack. When it did go off, the smell was horrible!

On the basis that all bacteria has been killed it does sound like it would be safe for a hamster to eat, but I would check the guidelines on individual packs to see how soon a pack needs using by once it has been opened and is no longer air tight.

 

[justfamke]

Thank you @Maz for your further analysis on the safety and shelf life of the product. I will dive into it a little bit deeper, just to be sure, to see what else I can find and share any new findings in the topic But this seems to be very hopefull!

 

[Maz]

I’ve stickied the post. It is solving a conundrum quite a few people had. However I think most packs don’t state if it’s raw or cooked or even pasteurised - which is frustrating. But you’ve now shown info on two brands.