The ratty girls

[Maz]

I don't know much about rats I know it's quite complicated with hamsters and even the vets struggle to work it out. Because they work out the dosage for weight and then have to factor in the hamster's metabolism. Sometimes takes them ages doing a load of maths! One vet said it was realised they had been underdosing hamsters for years by not factoring in their metabolism (which is different to that of a cat or dog). Shame they don't make rodent specific metacam.

 

[Banned Member 1]

I don't know much about rats I know it's quite complicated with hamsters and even the vets struggle to work it out. Because they work out the dosage for weight and then have to factor in the hamster's metabolism. Sometimes takes them ages doing a load of maths! One vet said it was realised they had been underdosing hamsters for years by not factoring in their metabolism (which is different to that of a cat or dog). Shame they don't make rodent specific metacam.

Its tricky because the amount of research on medical care for hamsters and rats is much less than for cats and dogs. A lot of medication for them is off-label. I had to sign a waiver allowing off-label use of medication during Harley's surgery...

 

[Maz]

There is actually no licensed medication for hamsters! It's shocking really.

 

[Riven]

Chewing at the stitches is very common for a rat in pain, as well as not eating or drinking. So I'm not surprised to hear of the outcome if you weren't given a high enough dose from the vets.

Rodents metabolise drugs very quickly and do very well on high doses for long periods of time so please don't worry about that. It also may be worth noting that because they metabolise drugs so quickly, they typically do better on 2 doses a day, 12hrs apart, rather than one dose every 24hrs.

I have never heard of tapering metacam with any animal, and I have a few.

We are getting there though regarding rodent meds. Cat Metacam is now licensed for guinea pigs (although dog metacam is used too. Especially for ops or for chronic pain management.)

 

[Maz]

The whole cat and dog Metacam is an interesting thing. I’ve found vets seem to prefer the dog Metacam for hamsters - something to do with the higher dosage being easier to work out. It was explained to me once but I can’t remember the whole reasoning behind it.

 

[Riven]

The whole cat and dog Metacam is an interesting thing. I’ve found vets seem to prefer the dog Metacam for hamsters - something to do with the higher dosage being easier to work out. It was explained to me once but I can’t remember the whole reasoning behind it.

Indeed. My last rats didn't need any meds, but my boys before did. I can't remember which metacam was used but my one boy had inflamed feet, not quite full blown bumble foot, but getting there. Presumed cause was his hind leg degeneration and his not so clean habits he had, even as a youngster. Had some metacam with antibiotics for a URI caused by Mycoplasmosis. Probably my unhealthiest rat, but lived the longest.

My last Syrian, mania, had dog metacam at the end of her life. But my one pig was given cat Metacam following castration and the other was given the dog version. Cat one sucked and I put Cyril on dog metacam twice a day because I knew the dosage from Basil's op, which we had problems with, I argued with the nurse and finally got to the vet I know well who agreed a higher does was needed and best to give twice a day.

Going back, rodents were given dog metacam twice a day. That's how the vets were trained. It's only recently the one low dose a day thing came in, and often the animal suffers because of it.

 

[Maz]

Vet guidance changes now and then so hopefully they’re up to speed with that now. My vet is always up with the latest guidance and explains at some length. Mind you they did once get confused and show me the wrong marking on the syringe! But I worked it out. So advice for hansters is often - double check the dose with the vet! Don’t be afraid to query it.

 

[Banned Member 1]

I have been giving the metacam in four doses spread throughout the day because it's much easier to get her to swallow smaller amounts. She'll just hold it in her mouth and the drool it down herself if she is giving half her daily dose in one go

 

[Banned Member 1]

We had to go back to the vets today. She was really good at staying still so the vet was able to get some stitches in her as well as some surgical glue, so it should hold together better this time. It would have healed slowly even if open but with the skin closer together progress will hopefully be faster.

 

[Riven]

We had to go back to the vets today. She was really good at staying still so the vet was able to get some stitches in her as well as some surgical glue, so it should hold together better this time. It would have healed slowly even if open but with the skin closer together progress will hopefully be faster.

Did she reopen it? I thought they'd already glued it?

 

[Banned Member 1]

Did she reopen it? I thought they'd already glued it?

ah, I didn't explain clearly. They glued it on monday last week and I wrapped her to make sure she couldn't chew at it and reopen it. Unfortunately the glue came unstuck from her skin on sunday evening. She was really good about staying still today so the vet was able to put a few stitches while I was holding her and then applied some glue over the top. She still has a small hole because the very end of the incision had some fatty tissue protruding and it wouldn't be safe to glue over that. Hopefully by the time the glue wears off again more of the incision will have closed up. Because the tumour had spread to all the mammarys on one side her incision is really long and her skin by her tummy is really tight so it's proving a difficult recovery...

 

[Riven]

So I assume they removed the whole mammary chain on the one side? That will take some healing as she's an older girl, but they heal pretty quick. Have you adapted a much smaller cage to prevent too much movement which would put too much strain on the sutures?

Is she eating and drinking better now?

 

[Banned Member 1]

So I assume they removed the whole mammary chain on the one side? That will take some healing as she's an older girl, but they heal pretty quick. Have you adapted a much smaller cage to prevent too much movement which would put too much strain on the sutures?

Is she eating and drinking better now?

Yeah, they removed everything on one side. She is in a 300 square inch 'hamster cage' at the moment to stop her moving around much. She has a cardboard box to hide in. I did put a low hammock in as well but took that out yesterday.

She was eating and drinking much better until I had to wrap her tighter again yesterday evening. The vet did say to expect a couple of days of her being less enthused about food and drink again due to discomfort from the new stitches.

https ://i.*****.com/ kEOgYrQ.jpg if you're curious about how it looks (I have put spaces in the link to stop the forum giving a preview, so those who don't want to see it can easily avoid it)

 

[elusive]

It’s a long slow process & must be a big worry for you & very hard for her, fingers crosses she’s on the mend & will be back to eating & drinking again soon & healing well.

 

[Banned Member 1]

It’s a long slow process & must be a big worry for you & very hard for her, fingers crosses she’s on the mend & will be back to eating & drinking again soon & healing well.

Yeah, she is having a miserable time of it, poor baby. Had I known the surgery was going to be this invasive I might have decided against putting her through it. Above 24 months surgery on rats is usually too risky to be worth it and even if they survive it there is a chance that they'll spend most of the time they have left recovering. 18-24 months it is more of a case-by-case judgement call. Harley is a little over 20 months now.

Miku had surgery at 26 months but we only went ahead with it because the lump seemed to be small and not attached to anything and the vet said he could get her under, remove it and wake her back up again in 5 minutes if all went well. It did but even so her heart raced and then stopped as the vet was waking her up. Thankfully as he was reaching for the resuscitation stuff her heart restarted by itself and she had a few more good months playing mum to her younger cagemates.

 

[Riven]

Yeah, they removed everything on one side. She is in a 300 square inch 'hamster cage' at the moment to stop her moving around much. She has a cardboard box to hide in. I did put a low hammock in as well but took that out yesterday.

She was eating and drinking much better until I had to wrap her tighter again yesterday evening. The vet did say to expect a couple of days of her being less enthused about food and drink again due to discomfort from the new stitches.

https ://i.*****.com/ kEOgYrQ.jpg if you're curious about how it looks (I have put spaces in the link to stop the forum giving a preview, so those who don't want to see it can easily avoid it)

Can't see the photo, could you send me the link in a message? Taking the hammock out was a good call.

Have you tried her on some wet dog food? (Senior and fish based, better on the kidneys). That way she gets some nutrition and hydration. You could also try some eggy rice with a small amount of veg.

This is the problem I had with my last girls. They were nearly 2½ when mammary tumours cropped up. Given age, location and the amount they had, I thought not to risk it. If they were younger or only had 1, I may have considered it.

Statistically, most rat mammary tumours are benign, so it's perfectly fine to leave them unless they start causing problems. My girls lumps were well capsulated, smooth and like perfect little balls under the skin. They didn't spider anywhere or have a stalk invading other tissues.

 

[Riven]

Thanks for sending the photo. Looks sore where the stitches are but there's plenty of granulation tissue further up. Did they not suggest stitching the fat and skin at the bottom? That's quite a gap, and while it will heal it's open to infection in the mean time.

Let's hope third time's the charm! Leave these stitches alone madam!

 

[Banned Member 1]

Thanks for sending the photo AJ. Looks sore where the stitches are but there's plenty of granulation tissue further up. Did they not suggest stitching the fat and skin at the bottom? That's quite a gap, and while it will heal it's open to infection in the mean time.

Let's hope third time's the charm! Leave these stitches alone madam!

The vet's opinion was that it was better to not stitch near the fat due to risk of necrosis. I wonder if that was because of the difficulty of trying to stitch down there while she was awake.

 

[Banned Member 1]

Harley is doing pretty well today and doesn't seem to be in much pain. She hadn't eaten for 24 hours until just now when she nibbled a bit of porridge (made with oats, critical care and malt paste), but I'm not surprised. She has however been drinking a little every so often which is the important thing. I expect in a day or two she'll be eating and drinking enough, so I'm not concerned.

 

[elusive]

That’s good to hear.