Dwarf hamster paradise

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Geminidevries

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hi my name is gemini I have 2 winter white dwarf females amari and amiya , there litter and cage mates . Iv'e been doing ALOT of research and currently have them both currently in a 55 gallon tank together and I plan on getting (2) 75 gallon tanks from petco during there dollar per gallon sale . I'm going to have the cage be 49in.Lx49in.Wx21.25in.H which is a 223.5 gallon tank. and 1386.5206 as the square inches .
My question are :
will this be more than enough space for both ama and ami so they can live happily together and don't feel like sardines ?
should i use wheels and a base on the bottom ?
what kind of lid should i use?
is the 1386.5206 accurate for the floor space ?
what other materials will i need besides silicone and putty knife/scrapper?
Wanting to ask before i put time and effort in this project
thanks in advance

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Hello gemini and welcome to the forum. I actually think it would be much better for you to house Amari and Amiya in separate tanks. Even dwarf hamsters can suddenly fight and it would be so sad if they were to get hurt. I can see the cage you are planning is a wonderful size but I would still not advice having both girls together.

When you say should you use wheels and a base on the bottom, do you mean should the wheels be on a platform? Sorry, I am not quite sure of what you mean.

If you buy a tank then you can make a lid using mesh with wood for the frame. I make the square inches about 1078. I have a tank that is about 1090 for my robo so I can kind of visualise this and would not put two hamsters in it. I would house the girls separately giving them each a 75 gallon tank. With the link to measuring tank volume, I think that is for fish because with a hamster you do not need to know the volume of the cage. The volume would be inches cubed but for a hamster you multiply the length and height and then you get square inches.
 
thanks rainbow for the info . yeah like under the base of the tank have a good size piece of wood with wheels so it's easier to move the enclosure out the way and such to clean . I was also thinking of having a big divider piece where there in the same tank but not @ the same time like there able to see each other but not ,was a plan B if they do end up fighting @ some point , but so far so good they haven't fought @ all *knock on wood *and amari the fiesty/small ham is skiddish and easily scared by amiyah who is bigger in size .
example :amiyah is more active and wakes amari up ,which amari doesnt like so she squeaks @ amiyah then they snuggle and go to sleep.
 
I really think they would be better living apart. Like you say, Amari does not like being woken and although they do snuggle they could turn on each other when you are not there. Anyway, I do not wish to nag you as at the end of the day it is up to you. :)

I think having a base with wheels is a great idea as it will be much easier if you need to move the tank and for cleaning.
 
Sorry Gemini re-reading the measurements I now see you list two numbers so you are putting two tanks together. I really get numbers mixed up.😉 I can see what you mean now with the measurements.
 
Hello and welcome to the forum!

I agree, keeping hamsters together is very very risky. They are solitary rodents.

I used to rescue hamsters and volunteer for rescues. Sadly, i have seen a lot of injured and very stressed hamsters because their humans thought it to be a good idea to keep them together. Believe me, it is not.
 
Hello and welcome to the forum! A 55 gallon tank is a really good size. There are many opinions about keeping dwarf hamsters in pairs, varying from - don't do it, it's too risky, to advice on how to ensure they can stay paired successfully - but always be prepared to separate them if they start squabbling. A squabble can lead to a fight to the death in no time.

There are some experienced hamster owners who do believe hamsters can be kept in pairs or groups (some dwarf hamsters such as Campbells or Robos). Often if someone is an inexperienced owner they are advised not to try.

I'm going to take the middle ground here and say - they are already living together. I don't know for how long? And it seems things are going fine. But I would not upgrade their cage. If the cage is too large it can lead to territorial behaviour and fighting, just as it can if the cage is too small.

It is reasonable advice to suggest you separate them and house them separately to avoid them falling out, and fighting, as it happens such a lot. And a cage change is likely to trigger fighting and territorial behaviour. Even without fighting, one hamster can be dominant and eat most of the food or bully the other one, so you end up with one hamster much bigger and the other much smaller. And it's not nice for the bullied one. It tends to happen when their hormones kick in when they're a few months old.

How long have you had them, how old are they and are they a sibling pair?

It is something for you to think about. Two 40 gallon cages may be better, if they are separated. Or keeping the existing tank and getting a 40 gallon tank for the other hamster.

In the meantime, the way to avoid territorial behaviour and fighting is to ensure there is at least two of everything in the cage - if you weren't aware of that already. Houses need to have multiple entrances (so one can escape if the other tries to block them in). Two houses, two wheels, two water bottles etc. They may both use the same wheel or sleep in the same house, but it means if they do fall out, one can have their own house and wheel and get away. And no levels in the cage. Levels can create territorial behaviour.

In Germany they say dwarf hamsters should only live alone, like Syrians. In the Uk, many people are of that opinion also, but some experienced owners aren't and think some species are good in pairings. I am not sure if Winter Whites is one of those - but are they pedigree winter whites? Most dwarf hamsters from pet shops are actually hybrids. Ie part winter white, part campbells (even if they look like winter whites) - after many years of interbreeding.

Do let us know more and we can perhaps help guide you through this to decide what to do :-) I have always wanted to try keeping a pair of robos together - getting the correct set up. I nearly did once, but the rescue had to separate them before they were rehomed. So it happens all the time - the need to separate them.

Pet shops do sell dwarf hamsters in pairs and say they can live together, but don't advise on the risks and requirements usually.

Having said all that, I do know people who have kept a pair for life happily - but it is very rare that happens.
 
Hello and welcome, great to hear you have two winter white dwarfs, fab names too. I agree with the others and feel it would be risky to house them together and would also suggest separate tanks.

I think the wheels can go either on the base or sat on top of a house/nesting box. I would go for a wood and mesh lid if you can. There are lots of photos of cage setups on here under the Show Us Your Cages page which are always great for ideas.
 
RainbowBrite said:
Hello gemini and welcome to the forum. I actually think it would be much better for you to house Amari and Amiya in separate tanks. Even dwarf hamsters can suddenly fight and it would be so sad if they were to get hurt. I can see the cage you are planning is a wonderful size but I would still not advice having both girls together.

When you say should you use wheels and a base on the bottom, do you mean should the wheels be on a platform? Sorry, I am not quite sure of what you mean.

If you buy a tank then you can make a lid using mesh with wood for the frame. I make the square inches about 1078. I have a tank that is about 1090 for my robo so I can kind of visualise this and would not put two hamsters in it. I would house the girls separately giving them each a 75 gallon tank. With the link to measuring tank volume, I think that is for fish because with a hamster you do not need to know the volume of the cage. The volume would be inches cubed but for a hamster you multiply the length and height and then you get square inches.
Click to expand...
In the US tanks are sold as gallon sizes :) And there's a chart to work out what the actual size is. A 40 gallon tank is usually about 90cm x 50cm. A 55 gallon tank is about 4 foot long but doesn't have as much depth - about 14" deep I believe. A 75 gallon tank is about 4ft (120cm) x 2ft (18" ish). And is a very good size for any hamster. Ironically the 40 gallon may be better than the 55 due to the extra depth.
 
Maz said:
How long have you had them, how old are they and are they a sibling pair?
Click to expand...
i've had them for 18 days currently but had hams in the past , they look to be 3 to 4 months , yes they are a sibling pair and were in the same enclosure when i got them .I do have a cage on standby if it goes south . i mainly want to make a bigger cage so ama & ami stuff fits better in the cage while also giving them more room to run around and put in more enrichments for them both.
 
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They are still quite young & haven’t been with you long, as they mature they will want their own space as the others have sai.
It really is best for your hamsters welfare not to wait until you see signs of them falling out as they will already be stressed by this point, far better to separate them sooner rather than later to avoid injuries & the long term health problems that can arise from stress.
Being siblings won’t make any difference long term, also females are far more territorial than males so problems will occur more quickly.
I would put your DIY skills into making the best seoperate homes for both so they can live happily.
 
I really love the names Amari and Amiya. What was the inspiration behind the names?😀
 
Going from a 55 gallon tank to the huge thing you're planning to build is a large step up. Opinions vary on whether you need to upgrade in stages when keeping pairs but it might be better to go to a single 75 gallon first just to be on the safe side. Also it's best to try and put as much of their current bedding as possible in their new cage and keep the layout fairly similar so it feels like their familiar joint territory. You'll need to watch them extra closely during their first few days in the new enclosure. Getting a night vision camera can also be helpful as sometimes they exhibit problematic behaviour in the middle of the night that they don't do while you're awake and watching them.

I've never kept a pair but have done a lot of reading of advice and experiences of people who do. One difference between winter whites and campbell's (both in the wild and in captivity) is that they're more likely to establish a dominance structure rather than cohabit as two hamsters of equal rank. In the wild Campbell's are more likely to cohabit monogamously whereas winter whites tend to have overlapping territories with hamsters of both sexes, forming dominance relationships. This dominance structure is fine as long as the dominant hamster isn't actually picking on the other hamster and making their life unpleasant.

One tricky aspect of keeping hamsters together is what to do if one needs medical care. They'll need taking to the vet together to maintain their bond and if one needs to be in a hospital tank and the nature of their illness means they can't both be in it then they'll probably need to be housed separately after that. (Sometimes separated hamsters can become seriously miserable and stop looking after themselves and it can be worth very carefully trying to reintroduce, but this tends to only be an issue with Campbell's).

I wouldn't generally recommend Tiktok for hamster stuff but as far as advice on keeping pairs goes there are some great people on there keeping pairs/groups successfully in big and wonderfully enriching layouts.
 
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Geminidevries said:
hi my name is gemini I have 2 winter white dwarf females amari and amiya , there litter and cage mates . Iv'e been doing ALOT of research and currently have them both currently in a 55 gallon tank together and I plan on getting (2) 75 gallon tanks from petco during there dollar per gallon sale . I'm going to have the cage be 49in.Lx49in.Wx21.25in.H which is a 223.5 gallon tank. and 1386.5206 as the square inches .
My question are :
will this be more than enough space for both ama and ami so they can live happily together and don't feel like sardines ?
should i use wheels and a base on the bottom ?
what kind of lid should i use?
is the 1386.5206 accurate for the floor space ?
what other materials will i need besides silicone and putty knife/scrapper?
Wanting to ask before i put time and effort in this project
thanks in advance

https://www.inchcalculator.com/tank-volume-calculator/

Gallon to Square inch ( gal in2 ) Converter -- EndMemo

Conversion between gallon and square inch
www.endmemo.com www.endmemo.com
Click to expand...
I think you might have slipped up on the maths somewhere. The Petco 75 gallon tanks are 49"x19.5" which gives a floor space of 955.5. If you're planning on combining them to make a tank that's still 49" long but twice as deep then the floor space is going to be 49"x39" which is 1911 inches. Whether you combine them end to end or side to side, two 75 gallon tanks are going to produce a 150 gallon tank when put together.
 
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oh, just realised you might be planning to use the four 49 inch long sides to make a large square and then use some other material to make the base. Yes, that would indeed make a tank that is 223 cubic inches but the floor space would be 49x49 which is 2401 square inches, which would be absolutely massive! I'd be seriously concerned about a pair deciding to create their own territories and start defending them in something so huge.
 
I am confused about the tank :) Having linked the sizes for Rainbow, it seems to me that a 40 gallon or 75 gallon would be better for a pair, than a 55 gallon. Both the 40 and 75 gallon are about 20"/50cm deep, which is a good depth - and 90cm or 120cm long respectively.

I think the main issue is that moving them to a new tank will disrupt the bond and they would be better left in the existing tank. You can try it, if it's all set up carefully. The issue with a lot of enrichment for a pair is it's so easy for one to get territorial over a particular item. Even a tube or tunnel needs to be big enough that both will fit in easily so one can't block the entrance.

The current 55 gallon is probably ok for them if the set up is pair friendly. And then see how they go as they may need separating at some point. Tulsi on here had a pair of female robos and ended up needing to separate them.

I fully understand though, how as an experienced hamster owner, you would like to try and do it sucessfully.
 
If the idea is to build/extend on the current glass tank, that probably isn't feasible due to the hamsters having to live somewhere else during construction. Too much stress. If the idea is to build a new 75 gallon tank to move them into, to save costs - that makes sense :-)

A move to a bigger 75 gallon tank could work if done very carefully and both hamsters are moved at exactly the same time. Ie they get in the same transport box and moved in it. If one is moved even a minute before the other it could lead to the first one feeling territorial immediately in the new cage. Plus familiar scents - ie don't clean anything during the move and spread the old substrate on top of the new in the new cage as AJ mentioned.

Do you know if they are hybrid's or pedigree winter whites?
 
In terms of which species do better in pairs, this is info from an NHC breeder. They don't actually mention Winter Whites as being kept in pairs. They do mention Campbells, Robos and Chinese. All of which are debatable. Another breeder says Winter Whites can be kept in pairs but are the most likely to fall out although sometimes do more screeching than fighting as they're screechers generally. With a hybrid hamster it's an unknown factor - they have genes of both winter whites and campbells.

The main thing is - you want to try and get it right for them and give it a go and are prepared to separate if necessary.

HAMSTERS | lilliputhams

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AJ do you have a link to one of those where they have amazing pair set ups. I am always open to the idea that there is a solution - hamster care has changed a lot in recent years. But hamsters are still all individual personalities. I'm only aware of robo colonies by an experienced breeder (her web page is no longer there but I think she's on youtube).

It is clearly not the right thing for most people though.
 
https://www.tiktok.com/@ladyblobsandco kept a large colony of pedigree campbells. They ones who are still alive are separated now for various reasons.
https://www.tiktok.com/@skittles.peanut Were a pair of winter whites who sadly crossed the rainbow bridge recently but lived their whole lives together
https://www.tiktok.com/@theacrew_hamsters had a pair of Campbells who lived together until one passed. The other took it super hard when she lost her bestie.
(Sorry this isn't a more cheery list, been a spate of the hamsters I've followed passing away recently...)
 
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